Cherry Picker

[Saxman]

And of course you cut out the key point of the post.

[BnZs]

Is it therefore a "sin" to fight only from an advantage?

Yes.

However, there is also the ass-hat notion that only speed and altitude constitute advantages, and maneuverability or numbers do not. With prop planes, an initial advantage in speed and/or altitude is what gives the much less maneuverable fighter something resembling an *even* break, unless the the higher-wingloaded plane has a truly outstanding advantage in weight-to-power ratio.

[Zazen13]

Yes.

However, there is also the ass-hat notion that only speed and altitude constitute advantages, and maneuverability or numbers do not. With prop planes, an initial advantage in speed and/or altitude is what gives the much less maneuverable fighter something resembling an *even* break, unless the the higher-wingloaded plane has a truly outstanding advantage in weight-to-power ratio.

Exactly, some 1 vs. 1 whine monkey's flying around in <insert favorite turny bird here> come across a <insert favorite E fighter here> Co-E/Co-Alt and call that an "even" fight. Not hardly...The E fighter must have an Alt/E advantage to convert into angles to match or overcome a more maneuverable plane with all other factors being equal. That is the essence of air combat between dissimilar aircraft. It's pretty easy to cruise around in <insert favorite turny bird here> and bemoan those that use E/Alt to kick your ass, but when's the last time you've heard a <insert favorite E fighter here> pilot cry because a <insert favorite turny bird here> pilot used his superior maneuverability to kick his ass? Answer: NEVER...

In all honesty, if I'm cruising around in A Hurricane or F6F I too pray to Jesus in heaven every E fig jock with an overinflated sense of himself will get tight with me. But, I sure as hell don't blame him when he doesn't, stays out of arms reach and tries to cherrypick me a new ass. It's what he should do, if he didn't do that I would assume he was a moron or new, which is almost always the case...If he isn't a moron or new and let me gain angles and kill his less maneuverable friend without trying to cherrypick me he should be shat upon, viscerated and fed to hungry lions.

[Delirium]

I'm not stupid, I freely admit that sometimes that in some fights where it is a 'fishbowl' with more than 10 planes swirling around in a small confined space where 1v1s simply aren't going to happen. To put yourself beneath the swirling mob in a P38, a ride that attracts the most attention (after slow perk rides and C47s), is akin to typing /.ef <enter>.

I'm finding furballs that large more boring everyday, it is more of a test of SA than anything else. Instead, I look for the fringes of the fights where smaller engagements take place or I attempt to drag a few out of the massive furballs to promote a better fight.

If you want to be a little timid in a scenario enviornment, I can understand, but to do that on a daily basis in the MA is boring.

[Shane]

I'm finding furballs that large more boring everyday, it is more of a test of SA than anything else. Instead, I look for the fringes of the fights where smaller engagements take place or I attempt to drag a few out of the massive furballs to promote a better fight.

smart man. 

If you want to be a little timid in a scenario enviornment, I can understand, but to do that on a daily basis in the MA is boring.

One critical thing, which I often find myself forgetting, is we're all unique in personality, setups and inherent talents/skillsets.  Some rely on talent, some on technical flying, some on numbers, some on a prayer and a wing, some on the hope the baddy doesn't see them.

I don't care how someone flys as long as I perceive an honest effort is being given - we are here to kill each other after all.

The logical goal is to become a complete, or well rounded,  player.  We all progress at our own rate as well as having our own expectations and motivations.  Some personalities just prefer their comfort zone <shrug>

[Guppy35]

Hmmm.  Beneath the mob in my 38G is my comfort zone apparently

[Zazen13]

One critical thing, which I often find myself forgetting, is we're all unique in personality, setups and inherent talents/skillsets.  Some rely on talent, some on technical flying, some on numbers, some on a prayer and a wing, some on the hope the baddy doesn't see them.

I don't care how someone flys as long as I perceive an honest effort is being given - we are here to kill each other after all.

The logical goal is to become a complete, or well rounded,  player.  We all progress at our own rate as well as having our own expectations and motivations.  Some personalities just prefer their comfort zone <shrug>

Excellent point Shane. I guess that's why I fly "tactically". I have tried everything I can think of to become a decent stick and have obviously failed miserably. I simply just have no aptitude for it at all. The only reason I even maintain the will to pay n' play is a stubborn love for the subject matter of WWII combat aviation. In a just world I should have quit years ago and saved myself the frustration and torture of perpetuating proven failure. I feel genuine remorse for inflicting my brand of pathetic mediocrity upon the community. But, I remain reluctant to  just quit and end the pain for some reason, perhaps masochism, I don't know. 

After 18 years, slower reflexes and worse eyesight I don't see myself suddenly becoming a pilot capable of cackling and scoffing at tactical prudence to intentionally fly beneath 20 dweebfires and Lgay7s and have any success like you uber-leet guys do so effortlessly. So, to compensate for my complete and utter lack of skill or talent I cop-out and resort to flying "smart" out of desperation. Then I can choose to only put myself in situations and planes where my craptacular flying abilities won't be such a glaring liability. I suspect most tend to gravitate over time toward behavior that masks their deficiencies in similar fashion...The only thing I am not totally inept at is gunnery. So, I construct situations and fly planes that accentuates that single facet of fighterdom that I suck at the least.

I am quite sure, like myself, everyone wishes they were magically endowed or bestowed, via experience, time and effort, with the ability to lay waste to huge swaths of numerically superior, higher E state enemy like you guys do. But, sadly, I am not one of those people...Instead I have to resort to the subterfuge of cherrypicking to fulfil my virtual bloodlust. But, in the larger scheme of things, AH probably needs pathetic, bottom feeding, scum sucking trash like myself to balance things out. Only then can you truly gifted God blessed souls stand out by contrast for the rest of us mere plebes to admire and adore.

[Shane]

you're right zaz.. as a penance you should let <insert favorite score potato> vulch you 137 times. 

otoh, I'd have thought that FurBlake in the DA would be prime for both your preferred style and recruiting/nurturing like-minded pie-lets.  Who's gonna carry your banner when you're old and feeble...r... ? Think of the children! 

[Zazen13]

you're right zaz.. as a penance you should let <insert favorite score potato> vulch you 137 times. 

otoh, I'd have thought that FurBlake in the DA would be prime for both your preferred style and recruiting/nurturing like-minded pie-lets.  Who's gonna carry your banner when you're old and feeble...r... ? Think of the children! 

I'm a afraid to click on the DA arena for fear my man-hood will shrivel up and die, much like a vampire exposed to the recriminating, punitive rays of the sun. Someone of my ilk has no place in such a pristine temple reserved for the worship of those divinely endowed with innate fighter talent.

[FiLtH]

    The thing that has always irked me about pickers isnt so much the way they choose to fly. Its simply that to die to one you are usually distracted and engaged, or just dont see them coming. Either way, it just doesnt seem like an earned kill. Unless the guy is on the ball and performs excellent timing attacks, most attacks can be avoided. But, that would be more of a bnz guy that has a technique that works, just like the tnb guys have theirs.

     The turny type flying isnt so much the type of plane (hurri ect) that the guy is using, but more a style regardless the plane he is in. Ive seen many A6m5 use BnZ exclusively.

    Picking is a whole different animal. More of us are guilty of it then we admit. When approaching a furball with alt, its almost always a pic that I start with, until in the mix and being picked myself. To rely on picking as the sole way to get kills, is where the negativity from most players come in.

     But regardless the never-ending debate on what way is right, for me the real problem is too many people sharing too little space on huge maps.

[Bruv119]

only thing that annoys me about the "cherry picker" are the guys that have played long enough to know better and rely on it as their sole purpose of getting kills.  The ones that will run to ack,  then soon as you start fighting other people, grab up to their safe zone and come piling back in and still miss and auger.

The hit n run mugs usually ponies/190's etc.   I cant tell others how to fly but the only way to learn new moves and skills is to put your backside on the line and come up with something different. 

Now I love to pick/bounce/vulch with the best of them.  If The situation presents itself I will maximise whatever advantage I have be it plane/alt/speed.   Getting double figure sorties is a piece of cake when you know how.

Personally I would prefer to land 3 kills knowing i've made 3 other people look stupid by outflying them anyday.   If someone manages to impress me with their flying and manages to kill me, I come up again and have another go, rinse repeat, until i've acquired a new angle to look at.   Some of the strife that goes on here is because people are far too lazy to adopt this approach and learn the hard way.  Too many people after an easy ride IMO.  I guess thats where the hording lamers come in.  NO skill, NO effort = easiest path to "percieved win".

A perfect example of a person I've noticed is Tongs,  He got on the wrong side of one of my squaddies because he kept pulling for HO shots awhile back(squaddie in question was probably trying to HO anyway  ),  when he tried the same thing with me they turned out to be lessons learnt.  Everytime I come across him in game now, gone are the HO attempts, good fights ensue and although he still gets put down often he has become a much better cartoon pilot for it.  A challenge that I now have to work to get a kill on.  I'm sure he kills his fair share of average players now too.

[Getback]

I doubt if I can add much to this thread. In fighters most of my kills or picks and most of my deaths are from being picked. Every now and then you get into a good 1 vs 1. Those are rare. Win or lose you always come away learning something from those. A couple of camps ago I got into a co-alt fight with another F4U4. Now I came out on top on that but the guy was being hit by my cv ack plus fighting me. In reality it was not a totally fair fight. Also in reality there are no fair fights. Different planes do different things better. Is a duel between a 6 gun p47 vs an 8 gun p47 equal? Not hardly. Then you have fuel loads, rocket rails etc. The other day I got into a turn fight with my F4U1a vs a spit 16. Even that wasn't fair since he was distracted by other cons in the area. Heck he may have not even known we were turn fighting. 

When I first started playing Air Warriors I purchased the CD and a book came with it. In it was a quote from Anvil, who was the first conference champ. He said, "No there is no honorable way to get a kill. You just kill them and move on".

[palef]

Hmmm.  Beneath the mob in my 38G is my comfort zone apparently

Speaking of picking, remind me not to try and have fun in an SBD around YOU!

[Zazen13]

When I first started playing Air Warriors I purchased the CD and a book came with it. In it was a quote from Anvil, who was the first conference champ. He said, "No there is no honorable way to get a kill. You just kill them and move on".

OMG! BURN HIM! BURN HIM! He's a witch!

You can't pull quotes like that on here! The God gifted blessed souls of Fighter Uber-dom will be the judge and jury that will order your public execution for an utterance of that nature!

Any thinking person knows the only valid kills are stall-speed, on the deck circle-jerking with a single bandit in hermetic isolation. All other kills are hitherto declared in-valid, un-holy and generally indicative of low-class, blasphemous, hedonism. I hereby declare the on-set of the Puritan Revolution of Aces High Fighter-hood!

[Urchin]

Zazen -

You have some sort of persecution complex?  Nobody is saying you are Satan or anything.  The simple fact of the matter is that someone who cherrypicks exclusively will never get the same sort of 'respect' that someone who can kill equally well from an initial disadvantage will. 

Granted, neither will get much respect in AH nowadays, when those who can drop the most buildings with the fewest bombs are objects of adoration to the masses.