Who is Better? Rolling Thunder or Joker's Jokers?

[DCCBOSS]

If you are going NOE, you are deliberately trying to avoid opposition.

Think about it. 

Yes your are right when flying NOE but what I was saying was that we also fly other type missions which do not avoid the opposition.

[Delirium]

Dccboss had that seperated btw. He said "not entirely".

Here is the quote

Rolling Thunder does alot of NOE missions but what is not entirely true is that we avoid opposition

The very reason to do NOE missions is to avoid opposition, no? The fact that 'a lot' of missions are NOE means 'a lot' of the time RT is not looking for opposition.

Sounds pretty logical to me.

[Delirium]

Here is a nice quote, perfect for the discussion.

Think of it this way, if the element of surprise is so overwellming that there is no way to defend against, then that is the path of least resistance, and hence will become the primary mode of attack. That is the state of affairs as it stood previously with big maps.

Now there are NOE raids that do not cause this, I.E. NOE raids to acheive  singular objectives, I.E. hitting cities, factories, possibly 1 open field deep in enemy territory. But if all objectives can be taken by NOE raids, IT creates non defensible game play.

2nd it easy to say, well people should just defend then. Think about what it really takes to defend against NOE raids, and do you really want to do that defense.

To defend successfully at NOE raids, you need more than 1 player.
2nd to defend against them you have to sit in the tower, waiting for the base to flash, and then up soon as it does.
Does that defense sound fun to you ? I.E. do you really want to just wait in tower for something that might or might not occur? Sure if you new a NOE mission was otw, but didn't know where it might be fun. But not where you don't even know if one is going to occur.


Hence what we are talking about is simply balance. I see where NOE raids can be fun, but we have to have a system where they do not become the path of least resistance for base capture.

HiTech

[Getback]

Rolling Thunder and Joker's Jokers are the same squad; they go where they can take a base without difficulty, often NOE, and always in large numbers. Deciding who is better is a lot like deciding who is better at playing Solitair, it doesn't matter since they didn't want opposition anyway. Unfortunately, I'm finding more and more squads with this type of behavior lately.

Before you tool shedders attack me, there are some good gents in those two squadrons and there are some nice gents who toolshed as well, but they are exception and not the rule.

You can't send two guys to take a base at alt. One in goon and one in, Heck I don't know what one plane can take down a whole town while fighting off cons. All sides use NOE's. Heck I learned the term as a rook. All sides send in a large mission to take bases as well. One plane can ruin an noe but it takes many to stop an altitude raid. You folks remember the Airmegeddon squad. Huge Rook squad! Use to send 60 players to take 2 bases at a time. Unfortunately they collapsed from too much weight I guess. There are many good guys in Jokers and Rolling Thunder. If they weren't then I know at least they wouldn't be in Rolling Thunder. They just don't last. I can tell you flying with Dadsguns, DccBoss, Wingnutt, Jarbo, Falcon, and about everyone else is just darn fun and can be hilarious.

I wouldn't attack you Deli, I have no cause. Right now anyway. You're just calling it as you see it. But explain something to me and forgive my ignorance. What's a toolshedder? I fear I might be one. 

[bmwgs]

Here is a nice quote, perfect for the discussion.

I love it when someone uses old posts.  It really gets the point across.  I guess in the Aces High fantasy world things never change.  I can post a few about Combat Tour.

Still chuckling.  

Fred

[Getback]

Here is the quote
 

The very reason to do NOE missions is to avoid opposition, no? The fact that 'a lot' of missions are NOE means 'a lot' of the time RT is not looking for opposition.

Sounds pretty logical to me.

I read it, but read his entire statement again. He said "Not entirely" and that we do other missions. So yeah NOE's avoid opposition but like he said we do other things too.

BTW, I have waited by town expecting NOE's. Several month's back I gave a list of what to expect prior to an noe. Let me go over what to look for and you can add your own.

1. You see a single fighter coming to the base
2. The opposing base is suddenly vacant where there once was a good sized dar bar.
3. The opposing base has been resupplied fast. (Not always)
4. Some one has taken out the vh. Again not always.

These are just a few I can remember. I need to look that up when I get a chance.

I use to live to discover NOE's I would take rockets to shoot at them. Once took out 5 arabian knights with rockets doing an noe. My point is NOE's fail as often as they succeed. Just be vigilant.

[Delirium]

That is exactly why I posted Hitech's quote, even if it is old is still accurately describes the whole problem with NOEs. I used Hitech's quote because no one can really argue with the game designer, least not win the argument anyway.

to defend against them you have to sit in the tower, waiting for the base to flash, and then up soon as it does.Does that defense sound fun to you ? I.E. do you really want to just wait in tower for something that might or might not occur? Sure if you new a NOE mission was otw, but didn't know where it might be fun. But not where you don't even know if one is going to occur.

You must be one of the few that sit in the tower for hours on end waiting for them, I am not one of those individuals. Frankly, as long missions don't bother with the field I'm at, those missions can take every base on the map.

You must have more patience than I do.  

[Guppy35]

I wouldn't attack you Deli, I have no cause. Right now anyway. You're just calling it as you see it. But explain something to me and forgive my ignorance. What's a toolshedder? I fear I might be one. 

A`good example would be the F4U drivers I ran into the other night.  They had alt and E, passed over the top of my easy target 38, ran into the base to drop their bombs, then had no clue what to do as I shot the 4 of them down. They did not come back as there was 'resistance' in the shape of 1 guy in a FP and myself. They were so bad they made me look good, and I ended up landing, which as anyone can tell you is a very rare occurrence.

Their goal was clearly to try and get an undefended base, and when it was, they didn't want anything to do with it.

[bmwgs]

That is exactly why I posted Hitech's quote, even if it is old is still accurately describes the whole problem with NOEs. I used Hitech's quote because no one can really argue with the game designer, least not win the argument anyway.

I'll agree with your above statement.  I do have one question?  Who says there is a problem, at least with the game?  I actually like the game.  I only see the complaints from same "old" few.

Fred

[Getback]

That is exactly why I posted Hitech's quote, even if it is old is still accurately describes the whole problem with NOEs. I used Hitech's quote because no one can really argue with the game designer, least not win the argument anyway.

You must be one of the few that sit in the tower for hours on end waiting for them, I am not one of those individuals. Frankly, as long missions don't bother with the field I'm at, those missions can take every base on the map.

You must have more patience than I do.  

Oh boy do I have patience. My squaddies will tell you I am nuts in that regard. However back to the point. What I do is look for a vulnerable base, maybe one that they have successfully ran noe missions to before. Then I grab a F4U4, some other f4U variant that carries rockets, or Pony. I climb out to the dar ring and fly around. Maybe even engage another con or at least make him run. Sometimes I fly out of the sector to make them think I am leaving the area. I tell you busting an NOE is some of the most fun you will ever have. Low cons, no E just sweet sweet kills. Usually many fat 110s and nice pokey goons. Yum!! Last NOE I busted I got 6 kills and of course sounded the alarm. Not a record by any means but enough that they came gunning for me.  

Guppy I saw your post on landing. Gawd I laughed until I cried. However I don't judge your flying skills by the post but you do have a great since of humor.

[1pLUs44]

Here is a nice quote, perfect for the discussion.

Delirium, don't think it's up to you to tell them how they should play the game and spend their 15$$.

[Guppy35]

Delirium, don't think it's up to you to tell them how they should play the game and spend their 15$$.

Don't see where he is telling them to play any particular way.  Quoting the game designer on his thoughts on NOE and the game is hardly that. 

[1pLUs44]

Don't see where he is telling them to play any particular way.  Quoting the game designer on his thoughts on NOE and the game is hardly that. 

I don't mean for it to sound so well, rude but all he's telling them is, that they stink, and that what they're doing possible can't be any fun.
Honestly, no other way to say it though than that.

[TwentyFo]

If that's the metric, 24 takes the cake.
(Image removed from quote.)

Yea...if you like photo shopped pictures

[Zazen13]

I find 50 guys horde swarming vacant fields about as interesting as two male pigs getting it on at the slop bucket. Asking which pig is better or wears prettier lipstick doesn't change the simple truth they're both pigs with or without the lipstick...