Spit XIV

[Anaxogoras]

Not based upon what the reality would be.. but what the reality already is.

The Spit XiV has a much lower perk price than the Tempest. 15 compared to 50.
Why is it then that we see MUCH less of the cheaper XIV than the very expensive Tempest, getting less than 1/4th of the Tempest skills? Why is it that despite this lower usage the Spit also has a K/D of ~1.2 compared to the much more poular Tempests K/D of 6.8?

The Spit XIV has a much lower K/D than many free fighters, but unlike them, it's perk status prevents it from being flown and wasted by 2-weekers...

The Spit 14's handling is simply horrible. It's a very tricky plane to fly, with lot's of stability issues. And that's the very reason it's so unpopular and by far the least effective & least flown perk plane.


BTW, the Ta 152 was once perked to.. with similar stats as the Spit XIV (and similar handling problems).

Hey Snailman, didn't you see my beautiful chart?   It shows how many perks were spent for a kill this last ToD:

In a way, the Spit XIV is more expensive than all the other perk fighters except the 262.

[Karnak]

I was on WEP.

Yes, I know.

He wasn't.

That is exactly what I said.

[thrila]

These threads always compare the SpitXIV to the K4 and thus end up as better arguments for perking the K-4 than unperking the XIV. If the Kurt didn't have its difficulties with views, guns, and elevator lock-up in dives, it would CERTAINLY deserve to be perked, and maybe does even with those difficulties. In any case, no such comparison is a good reason to unperk the XIV.

I feel that the comparison to the 109K is a reasonable way to justify/unjustify the spit14's perk because they are very similar planes.  A rough comparison would be to say the spit14 is a slower, better turning 109k.  The 109 has it's disadvantages of course, but so does the spit14 as others have mentioned- it's poor low speed handling. 

Another significant disadvantage for the spit14 in the MA in my opinion is it's 5 min WEP requiring 15mins cooling, where as the 109K has 10min WEP, 10min cooling (i believe most planes have 5/10).  When the spit14's WEP runs out it's performance is very average in my opinion, even with WEP many aircraft can out run at low alt which is the most common alt fights occur in AHII.  Several unperked planes can run down the spit14 at low level including the la7, 109K, tiffie, d9, p51d and p47N which reduces the spit14's survivability in the MA. 

[stroker71]

If you get caught on the deck, low-e then your flying the 14 wrong.  Keep your alt, let the runners go.  Even when they come back you'll be able to outrun, outhandle, outclimb them. 

But I am still for unperking the 14 atleast for a few tours to see what the numbers say then.

[BnZs]

I've flown the bloody thing a little, did a series of duels vs a squaddie in a Spit16 once and won most of them (albeit, we started out at 15K and the fight tended to climb). If you are comparing it to any of the earlier marks of Spits, well yes, the XIV handles worse than what are otherwise the easiest-handling a/c in the game. Sure, and a wrong-turning engine doesn't help. But no worse than a Tempest's handling problems really, or even a Kurt4s for that matter.

And the Ta-152...really, we are bringing this up? Lousy argument for unperking the XIV. The Ta-152, for all intents and purposes at MA alts, is a slightly slower Pony with big cannons. And the XIV's handling quirks do not approach the oddities of the 152.

[Lusche]

If you are comparing it to any of the earlier marks of Spits, well yes, the XIV handles worse than what are otherwise the easiest-handling a/c in the game. Sure, and a wrong-turning engine doesn't help. But no worse than a Tempest's handling problems really, or even a Kurt4s for that matter.

I'm not sure if we play the same game at all...

[BaldEagl]

Only that there is no "light" to see.

The handling issues are real & severe.Hard to see the light when the average player is fighting more his plane than the enemy.
All performance numbers of the XIV are fine, and only based on them the XIV would be truly a monster. But performance numbers are only a part of the story...

I haven't run into these severe handling issues that you speak of.  Of course, for the most part I'm not slinging mud in it at 80 mph either.  If that's where the handling issues appear then it's not being flown to it's strengths.

That said, I did get into a turning contest with a Spit VIII last night.  IIRC someone else finally got the kill but here's my take on that encounter:  We started one on one and were both using the vertical.  On the uphill sections of the fight the XIV had clear superiority.  I could maintain speed and close on him as he rolled over the top every time.  On the downhill segments I was holding much more speed and used a combination of lag pursuit and rolling around his flight path to hold position behind his 3/9 line.  I had him totally on the run and there was little he could do to shake me.  In retrospect, I needed to work throttle a bit better on the downhill segments so that I wouldn't have had to use as much rudder as I was using to get back in-plane for his breaks.  Live and learn.  Regardless, I held good speed throughout the engagement.  I never heard a stall buzzer or hit the buffet but was able to maintain my 3/9 position through extended manouvering instead.  I'm guessing I was holding 150 mph or higher throughout.

The Ta-152 has much more severe handling deficits than the XIV.  There really is no comparison.

Oops... accidently posted before I finished.

[BnZs]

Really Lusche? Does the SpitXIV have low-speed high-power roll control issues worse than the Tempest or K-4, or yaw instability issues worse than the Ta-152.

Like I say, the problem comes in when comparing the XIV to other Spits (say the 16) and not to the LW planeset as a whole. You have a small number of planes who are conceivably a threat to the XIV, but a much larger number it could plain out-run, out-climb, out-turn and generally outfight, or who are else so much slower than the XIV that it never has to fight them at all if the XIV pilot keeps his head.

Remember, the only justification for the 16 NOT being perked is medium speed...

[Lusche]

Really Lusche? Does the SpitXIV have low-speed high-power roll control issues worse than the Tempest or K-4, or yaw instability issues worse than the Ta-152.

In short: Yes.

And I read a lot of "But I'm killing a lot of (insert plane) in the MA with it" or "But my k/d in a Spit XIV is so and so"
Well I frequently outturn Spit's in my Ta 152H, and I'm having an overall K/D of ~5in the Hurricane I in LW MA. But that doesn't mean  the Ta is a better turner than the Spit or the Hurri I is a killer worthy of being perked. You have to take the pilot's skill levels into account.

And fact is, the overall success of the XIV is quite limited. Average K/D (lousy when compared to other perk planes) and very low absolute kill numbers. And this is not a short time phenomenom but stable from tour to tour.
And I have a very hard time to believe it's just because it's only flown by n00bs and just no one is flying it to it's strengths. The perk price is already boosting K/D, because it prevents 2 weekers and complete inept players from flying it. 

[B4Buster]

If the 14 were unperked the arena WOULD be swarming with them...for the first few days, then people would realize it's not as..."user friendly" as he 16, and would switch over to the 8

[Bruv119]

If the 14 were unperked the arena WOULD be swarming with them...for the first few days, then people would realize it's not as..."user friendly" as he 16, and would switch over to the 8

thats assuming people know what the roman numerals represent.

[BnZs]

In short: Yes.

I absolutely do not see this. I took it up offline to be sure after I read this. Compared to the Ta, a very steady gun platform. Roll rate at 120mph with the engine wide open, *not* sprightly but better than the tempest. Rolls against torque at least as well as the K-4 does.

[/quote]

And fact is, the overall success of the XIV is quite limited. Average K/D (lousy when compared to other perk planes) and very low absolute kill numbers. And this is not a short time phenomenom but stable from tour to tour.
And I have a very hard time to believe it's just because it's only flown by n00bs and just no one is flying it to it's strengths. The perk price is already boosting K/D, because it prevents 2 weekers and complete inept players from flying it. 

Consider the fact that is has a relatively low perk-price, it has the same *name* as an airplane series newer players are likely to be comfortable with, but is in fact, a totally different airplane. Not a bad airplane, but different.

Also consider the fact that once again, it is a perk-plane that people are more likely to be actually *fighting* in, instead of vulching and cherrypicking. The Tempest's k/d would probably be even lower than the XIVs if they were actually used for dogfighting instead of slashing through.

[Stoney]

Agree completely with Lusche.  The Spit 14 is mediocre when compared to most of the LW monsters except for its climb rate.  The amount of engine torque present in high-power, low-speed maneuvers is difficult for most pilots to control successfully.  Its heavy controls at high speeds make it a difficult BnZ aircraft.  I can't think of a single facet of its performance envelope that encourages me to take it over any of its unperked peers in typical MA combat.  

[Karnak]

Consider the fact that is has a relatively low perk-price, it has the same *name* as an airplane series newer players are likely to be comfortable with, but is in fact, a totally different airplane. Not a bad airplane, but different.

Also consider the fact that once again, it is a perk-plane that people are more likely to be actually *fighting* in, instead of vulching and cherrypicking. The Tempest's k/d would probably be even lower than the XIVs if they were actually used for dogfighting instead of slashing through.

That might be valid if people were actually using it.  Its usage numbers indicate that is not the case.  It simply isn't being used on purpose.  I wouldn't be surprised if a fair number of Spitfire Mk XIV sorties are made in error by people who intended to take some other variety of Spitfire.  Yes, this would drive its K/D ratio down too.

[B4Buster]

thats assuming people know what the roman numerals represent.

LOL good point.

I upped a Spit 14 earlier to get a feel for it. That thing is an AMAZING climber. was climbing at 4500 fpm WEP climb from the deck up to 10K. I went afk for a minute, came back and a 190 was 1.5k off my 6, so I turned into him, I had forgotten how unstabe that thing is (especially when turning it to the left) Shot down the 190, then spotted a set of 24s. It tore up the buffs with ease, it held its E, and I could zoom back up and prepare for another pass.

I still think it should be unperked. Its climbing wouldn't be matched by any other un-perked plane but it really wouldn't be an effectie turn fighter for someone just starting out (which IMO is most spit 16 pilots)