ENY and performance, your opinion desired

[Anaxogoras]

I still think you need to differentiate high-speed vs low-speed rate of roll and maneuverability.

I agree.  It will come in time.  For what airspeed?  I was thinking ~400ias.  Know of anyone who already has the data?

[Saxman]

I'd say closer to 350mph and above for "high speed." Otherwise we'd need a Low/Medium/High spread.

[ink]

I have access to turn rate data, but not to data for roll rate or turn at different speeds.  So far the A6M2/5 ends up being one of the worst fighters, so not having that data isn't going to change much.

The excel sheet I'm using computes data like this:

Take a category, like top speed on the deck.  Subtract the average top speed from the aircraft's top speed, and divide by the standard deviation.  The results are usually in the range of -1.9 to 1.9.  Anything below or above that is extreme.  That score, called the Z-score, can then be modified by a multiplier to accentuate one category or another, and to de-emphasize others.  Then you simply take the average for all categories to get a total score.

With multipliers set like this

1.5   Speed at sea level
1.75 Speed at 10k ft
.75   Speed above 10k ft
1.0   Climb at sea level
1.0   Climb at 10k ft
0.25 Climb at 15k ft
1.25  Turn radius
1.5   Turn radius w flaps
1.5   Primary Lethality
1.5   Secondary Lethality
0.5   Primary Firing time
0.5   Secondary Firing Time
1.0   Primary Ballistics
1.0   secondary Ballistics
.75   Flight Time (at full throttle)
0.5   Ordinance
1.25  Roll Rate
0.5   Cockpit Visibility
.75   Dive Acceleration
.75   Energy Retention
1.5   200-300mph acceleration

these are the results (no P-39 or F4U-1A):

Tempest   0.64
F4U-4   0.62
Spit XIV   0.54
Spit XVI   0.50
F4U-1C   0.44
P47N   0.43
LA7   0.37
F4U-1D   0.34
Spit VIII   0.33
P51D   0.32
P51B   0.29
F4U-1   0.28
190D-9   0.26
109 K-4   0.25
P47D-40   0.24
P47D-25   0.18
KI84   0.17
P38L   0.16
P47D-11   0.15
TA152   0.15
Mossie   0.14
P38J   0.13
LA5   0.12
Typhoon   0.12
109 G-14   0.10
Spit IX   0.10
F6F   0.08
109 G-2   0.06
190A-5   0.06
N1K2   0.06
110 G   0.04
190A-8   0.03
YAK 9U   0.01
109 F-4   -0.01
109 G-6   -0.08
C205   -0.11
190F-8   -0.13
P38G   -0.13
Spit V   -0.18
YAK 9T   -0.25
KI61   -0.28
Seafire IIC   -0.29
C202   -0.33
FM2   -0.51
Hurri IIC   -0.56
P40E   -0.59
Spit I   -0.63
110 C   -0.70
A6M5   -0.74
Hurri IID   -0.79
109 E-4   -0.85
F4F   -0.88
P40B   -0.90
A6M2   -0.92
Hurri I   -0.97


P.S. For the La's I divided their lethality between the primary and 2ndary weapons.

wrong wrong wrong,

now I am not saying that your numbers are wrong but there is no way the Hurri2c should be that low on the totem pole, the cannons and turning ability make it one of the deadliest planes in game, so maybe if the turning and lethality of the guns, data configured higher into the equation?

the cannons are the best in game, its second only to the zero in flat out turns (I think), if its got lower fuel amount it will out turn the zero, the visibility  is excellent, it dives very well, holds what little bit of E it generates well, the only thing its lacking is flat out speed.
  it is the only plane that I have been able to stay alive, and fly away from, a huge disadvantage in numbers and ALT with killz.

[Anaxogoras]

Actually, the data I have says the Hurri holds energy poorly, and accelerates in a dive poorly, too.  Its best diving attribute is its roll rate, so maybe once I add in figures for high speed roll-rate like saxman suggests, the Hurri will improve.

To move the HurriIIC up in the ranks I've have to dramatically weight firepower and turning at the expense of most everything else.

[Saxman]

wrong wrong wrong,

now I am not saying that your numbers are wrong but there is no way the Hurri2c should be that low on the totem pole, the cannons and turning ability make it one of the deadliest planes in game, so maybe if the turning and lethality of the guns, data configured higher into the equation?

the cannons are the best in game, its second only to the zero in flat out turns (I think), if its got lower fuel amount it will out turn the zero, the visibility  is excellent, it dives very well, holds what little bit of E it generates well, the only thing its lacking is flat out speed.
  it is the only plane that I have been able to stay alive, and fly away from, a huge disadvantage in numbers and ALT with killz.

The Hurricane is basically a one-trick-pony in the LW arenas--which is what this is going by. The only thing it does remarkably well is turn at low speeds, and even its gun package is not enough on its own to justify a massive jump in the listing. The F4U-1C, Typhoon and Tempest all carry the same four Hispano 20mm cannon in airframes that are FAR more capable. Everything else the IIc can do well there's other planes that do it far better.

[BnZs]

Huh...how did the F4U-4 move up above the Tempest when speed at SL became weighed heavier? Bizarre, unless somehow its bad spot in the power-curve at 10K is hurting it more with this weighting. I wonder the same thing about the SpitVIII moving up with a greater weighting towards SL speed, at 340 or so, it's no demon on the deck.

  I tried that half-way and only one or two people liked it.

Which other factor would I change to compensate for the .25 total difference?

Here is what I get with the following settings, a more extreme version of what you're asking for (turn rate added):

1.5   Speed at sea level
1.0   Speed at 10k ft
.5    Speed above 10k ft
1.5   Climb at sea level
1.0   Climb at 10k ft
0.5   Climb at 15k ft
1.0   Turn-rate
1.0   Turn radius
1.0   Turn radius w flaps
1.5   Primary Lethality
1.5   Secondary Lethality
0.5   Primary Firing time
0.5   Secondary Firing Time
1.25  Primary Ballistics
1.25  Secondary Ballistics
.75   Flight Time (at full throttle)
.75   Ordinance
1.25  Roll Rate
.75   Cockpit Visibility
.75   Dive Acceleration
.75   Energy Retention
1.5   200-300mph acceleration

F4U-4   0.62
Tempest   0.59
Spit XIV   0.55
Spit XVI   0.53
F4U-1C   0.41
Spit VIII   0.38
LA7   0.34
P47N   0.34
F4U-1D   0.33
P51D   0.28
P38L   0.25
P51B   0.24
190D-9   0.23
P47D-40   0.23
KI84   0.22
P38J   0.21
F4U-1   0.20
109 K-4   0.18
P47D-25   0.16
F6F   0.13
LA5   0.13
N1K2   0.11
Spit IX   0.11
109 G-14   0.09
190A-5   0.09
P47D-11   0.09
TA152   0.09
Typhoon   0.09
109 G-2   0.07
Mossie   0.02
109 F-4   0.01
190A-8   -0.01
110 G   -0.02
YAK 9U   -0.03
P38G   -0.08
109 G-6   -0.09
C205   -0.12
Spit V   -0.15
190F-8   -0.16
YAK 9T   -0.26
Seafire IIC   -0.28
KI61   -0.31
C202   -0.32
FM2   -0.45
Hurri IIC   -0.46
P40E   -0.57
Spit I   -0.58
Hurri IID   -0.69
A6M5   -0.70
110 C   -0.75
A6M2   -0.82
109 E-4   -0.83
F4F   -0.87
Hurri I   -0.87
P40B   -0.90


The biggest surprise to me is the low rankings of the Hurri IIc and N1K, both slow, nimble aircraft with 4 cannons that enjoy main arena success.  They're just not well-rounded enough to do well when so many things are considered, but a lot of their success comes from fundamental mistakes by their opponents.  The N1K suffers most from its cannon ballistics.

I've toyed with all sorts of settings but it's very difficult to make the SpitXVI rank lower than the C-hog.   Perhaps if I upped ammo duration a bit at the expense of something else.

---------------------------

Edit:  If you want the spreadsheet so you can toy with the numbers yourself pm me your email address.

[Anaxogoras]

It was due to the addition of turn-rate and a greater emphasis on ballistics and ordinance.

[BnZs]

Ah, gotcha.