Help me understand something...

[Fianna]

the key here is to watch them VERY carefully when you're dragging em up. i fell for that "fake" stall in the past. then i started being a bit late in nosing over for a stalled con.
 what i do now, is to watch for the nose to "wobble" a bit, then wings dropping.....these are kinda hard to fake, and a sure sign that he's about to stop flying for a few seconds. When i see the combination, i crank her over, and take my shot......although i generally miss, as my gunnery sucks. 

If you don't already do it, you should try cutting throttle as soon as you nose over. It'll give you longer to line up a shot.

[CAP1]

If you don't already do it, you should try cutting throttle as soon as you nose over. It'll give you longer to line up a shot.

i do....since i'm almost always one of the 38's, i crank hard rudder, and aielron, as i chop throttles to idle......then i adjust as needed when i'm pointed the right way.

thanks!

[Krusty]

No, trust me. This was nobody special. Typical ho-an-yank pilot in the spitty. Very low on the skill chart. And no it wasn't a "fake dip" because he had to completely roll under himself to recover.

Spits are just UFOs in this game.

[Karnak]

No, trust me. This was nobody special. Typical ho-an-yank pilot in the spitty. Very low on the skill chart. And no it wasn't a "fake dip" because he had to completely roll under himself to recover.

Spits are just UFOs in this game.

Then it should be easy for you to fim yourself doing so as evidence and get HTC to change it.

Or your full of roadkill as usuall when it comes to Spitfires.

[dtango]

Why is it that the P51 is so much faster than the Spit 16, but the Spit 16 holds E better and is so much better in the vertical? If the P51 is so much more aerodynamically "cleaner" than the Spit, then shouldn't it hold E as well? If the Spit is better in the vertical because it is lighter, shouldn't it also have a higher top speed (power to weight)?

Well of course it's for the same reason the Spitfire LF Mk IX  (AH Spitfire 16) has a higher maximum rate of climb than the P-51D in real life even though the P-51D has a higher top level speed.

Once you find the answer to this question then you'll also find the answer to your original question .  Sorry, I don't have time to post anymore at the moment.  Work through the dynamics involved above and you'll find the answer you're looking for.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

[Bronk]

No, trust me.

See.. that just doesn't cut it when it comes to the FM. I'm quite sure HTC spends a great deal of time on that.  Do you think If I said " Trust me, the 190 could do 700 mph on the deck." is all that is needed?

[moot]

The full question is "needed for what". Anecdotic is enough to point out that something's wrong if it's that obvious (e.g. the tempest being unhistoricaly faster in level acceleration), but not to say what the fix is. HTC coded the thing and prolly dug thru all the documentation, so they prolly know all about it and more than anyone else... just sayin.

[CAP1]

Specifications (Spitfire Mk Vb)
Data from The Great Book of Fighters[80] and Jane’s Fighting Aircraft of World War II[81]

General characteristics

Crew: one pilot
Length: 29 ft 11 in (9.12 m)
Wingspan: 36 ft 10 in (11.23 m)
Height: 11 ft 5 in (3.86 m)
Wing area: 242.1 ft² (22.48 m²)
Airfoil: NACA 2200
Empty weight: 5,090 lb (2,309 kg)
Loaded weight: 6,622 lb (3,000 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 6,770 lb (3,071 kg)
Powerplant: 1× Rolls-Royce Merlin 45 supercharged V12 engine, 1,470 hp at 9,250 ft (1,096 kW at 2,820 m)
Performance

Maximum speed: 378 mph, (330 knots, 605 km/h)
Combat radius: 410 nmi (470 mi, 760km)
Ferry range: 991 nmi (1,140 mi, 1,840 km)
Service ceiling 35,000 ft (11,300 m)
Rate of climb: 2,665 ft/min (13.5 m/s)
Wing loading: 24.56 lb/ft² (119.91 kg/m²)
Power/mass: 0.22 hp/lb (360 W/kg)
Armament


Guns: Mk I, Mk II, Mk VA

8x 0.303-inch (7.7-mm) Browning machine guns, 350 rounds per gun
Later versions (VB on)



2× 20 mm (0.787-in) Hispano Mk II cannon, 60 (later 120 (Mk VC)) shells per gun
4× 0.303-in (7.7-mm) Browning machine guns, 350 rounds per gun
Bombs:

2× 250-lb (110-kg) bombs


^^^^^^^^^^^from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Spitfire   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^


TECHNICAL NOTES:
Armament: Six .50-cal. machine guns and 10 5-in. rockets or 2,000 lbs. of bombs
Engine: Packard-built Rolls-Royce Merlin V-1650 of 1,695 hp
Maximum speed: 437 mph
Cruising speed: 275 mph
Range: 1,000 miles
Ceiling: 41,900 ft.
Span: 37 ft.
Length: 32 ft. 3 in.
Height: 13 ft. 8 in.
Weight: 12,100 lbs. maximum
Serial number: 44-74936

^^^^^^^^^^^from here: http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=513




Specifications

[edit] P-51D Mustang
Data from The Great Book of Fighters,[75] and Quest for Performance[76]

General characteristics

Crew: 1
Length: 32 ft 3 in (9.83 m)
Wingspan: 37 ft 0 in (11.28 m)
Height: 13 ft 8 in (4.17 m)
Wing area: 235 ft² (21.83 m²)
Empty weight: 7,635 lb (3,465 kg)
Loaded weight: 9,200 lb (4,175 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 12,100 lb (5,490 kg)
Powerplant: 1× Packard V-1650-7 liquid-cooled supercharged V-12, 1,490 hp (1,111 kW) at 3,000 rpm;[77] 1,720 hp (1,282 kW) at WEP
Zero-lift drag coefficient: 0.0163
Drag area: 3.80 ft² (0.35 m²)
Aspect ratio: 5.83
Performance

Maximum speed: 437 mph (703 km/h) at 25,000 ft (7,620 m)
Cruise speed: 362 mph (580 km/h)
Stall speed: 100 mph (160 km/h)
Range: 1,650 mi (2,755 km) with external tanks
Service ceiling 41,900 ft (12,770 m)
Rate of climb: 3,200 ft/min (16.3 m/s)
Wing loading: 39 lb/ft² (192 kg/m²)
Power/mass: 0.18 hp/lb (300 W/kg)
Lift-to-drag ratio: 14.6
Recommended Mach limit 0.8
Armament


6 × 0.50 in (12.7 mm) machine guns; 400 rounds per gun for the two inboard guns; 270 per outboard gun
2 hardpoints for up to 2,000 lb (907 kg)
10 × 5 in (127 mm) rockets


^^^^^^^^^from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-51_Mustang ^^^^



note the power to mass ratings. that's why(at least partly) the spit can climb, and accelerate faster, turn tighter, and do seemingly impossible things.

[dedalos]

I was in a Ta152, had speed and alt at about 8-10k. A spixteen zooms up from below me with a bit of speed so I spiral climb up. It takes him a while to stall out, but when he does (at 600 yards) he stalls hard enough to dip a wing. I was saving my E for this, so I'm about to roll in on him and he recovers.

Just so I learn, how do you save your E while spiral climbing?

[Anaxogoras]

Just so I learn, how do you save your E while spiral climbing?

You're gaining potential energy.

[Stoney]

Don't confuse Energy Retention with low Induced Drag.

Imprecise terminology.  Induced drag increases with angle of attack, not lower speed.  While typically, AoA increases as speed decreases, you'll get lost in the terminology if you approach this comparison from these perspectives.

 

[Anaxogoras]

What I have said is a simplification

But thanks for the clarification.

[Ack-Ack]

You're gaining potential energy.

Saving Energy is when you're flying along and you see a bogie below you and you keep stalking him until you're ready to pounce, which at that time you're cashing in the Energy you were saving while stalking. 

What Krusty was describing isn't saving energy by using a spiral climb, he was doing what you said, gaining potential energy. 


ack-ack 

[Stoney]

What I have said is a simplification, but I hope it helps to tease out the most important concepts. [/list]

Quite understated actually.  What I was trying to point out, diplomatically, was that you cannot answer the OP's question by comparing induced drag.  The difference in the induced drag of either plane is not the property that differentiates the two aircraft with respect to the original question. 

[CAP1]

Quite understated actually.  What I was trying to point out, diplomatically, was that you cannot answer the OP's question by comparing induced drag.  The difference in the induced drag of either plane is not the property that differentiates the two aircraft with respect to the original question. 

i still think it's got more to do to their weights, and power to weight ratios than anything........[/list]