Bomb dynamics...or lack there of..

[TheWobble]

I am a "buff weenie" and i have noticed what annoys both bomber pilots and the people who like their fields in one piece.  The way the bombs fall, they dont disperse at all. i mean if you are at 30k and drop 12 500's in a fast salvo they will land right after one another in a perfect line.this cannot be right. also this makes is so these lancs can come at at 35k and snipe all your hangers,

the way it shoud be is this.

Your at 15k, you can probably hit a larg hangar with 1 bomb  say %70 give or take.

Your at 20k things start getting hairy maby 25-30% chance of hitting larg hangar with 1 bomb.

Your at 25k and above, forget hitting any specific target, what ya got to to is carpet.

now some may think this is bad for bombers but look at it this way..

at 30k in your b-17 you could drop 12 500's with like a .1 delay on 12 bomb salvo and insted of that nice little line, you have 12 bombs lading randomly roughly inside the perimeter of the base.  sometimes you may kill alot of things, other times just a few gune emplacements. and thats REAL, I would love to come over one of the big fields with 2 or 3 other 17's and look back and see all these little blasts  walking across the field.  The point is this will benifit all, you buffs wont be able to pick off all the hangars then guns and capture the field with just 1 or 2 bombers in 10 min.  and on the other hand a buff can fly over target and dump all his bombs without HAVING to try to snipe all the hangars, he'll drop nad he knows he'll get hits what and where who knows but such is the way with bombers.

[SKurj]

Leave bombers alone..

AKSKurj

(rarely fly em anyways)

[TheWobble]

thats why you dont care about them, thats all i fly and it bugs me that HTC will go through all these great pains with charts and what not for everything, and yet let the basic falling of solid objects be so incredibly unrealistic, the way it is now is a major part of why so many people dont like bombers, too accurate.

[juzz]

Maybe, just maybe, if it took more skill to aim the bombs than being able to use Windows with a mouse... bombers would still be too accurate vs historical record, but it would be because of "virtual pilot uberskill" rather than an idiotproof bombsight.  

[SKurj]

Actually I do care about the buffs, when I say rarely I guess about 5-10% of my sorties I fly a buff.  And when I do get in a bomber I wanna be able to hit my target!!
I miss with eggs about 5% of the time.  If I up and grab for 30 mins, only to just soften my target without killin it i just won't bother again, I'll Jabo.

LEAVE BUFFS ALONE

AKSKurj

[Karnak]

I'm with Skurj on this one.

Well, I could see keeping our present accuracy from 25,000ft and below.  Give about a 50% chance to hit your mark from 25,000ft to 30,000ft.  Make anthing above 30,000ft have about a 10% chance to hit.

This would get rid of the stratobuffs, yet it would not render buffs useless.

Sisu
-Karnak

[Wilfrid]

What Skurj and Karnak said.


Wilfrid

[TheWobble]

The over curate bombing is a double edged sword for the bomber pilot though,

YES you can hit individual targets with great precesion ....BUT

If you wanna drop your whole load of bombs (which was FAR more commin that 1 at a time historically) then the accuracy is a nightmare.

when you drop all your bombs over a field they just make a straight line across it, doing little damage,  in comparison
what SHOULD happen if you were drop 12 bombs from 20k+ they would land in and around the border of the field hitting lots of things sometimes  and not many other times, but even the worst salvo drop (if on target) will produce far better results than a perfectly staright line of falling bombs.  This also solves the problem of stratolanc tards picking off every hangar from 35k, insted they would just fly over and drop em all
(although 14 1k bombs would wreak havoc if even 2/3 of them landed randomly inside the perimiter of the field.)
Im just saying that HTC went through great pains making the fighter game so nice and yet left this HORRIBLE inaccuracy, I mean In know no fighter jock cares if a bombs fall accuratly but bomber pilots and i dont se why everyone say aaa "leave the bombers alone"  WHY leave them alone you see people throw a fit if their fighter holds 20 rounds less than the historic load but yet totally ignore something this glaring.  fighter folks look at it this way... what if you got in your fighter and no matter how hard you turne, dove, climbed or  manuevered you fighter always maintained the EXACT same speed, would drive you nutts yes? well to a bomber the bomb is an extension of the plane itself so HTC PLEASE FIX THIS!

[SKurj]

TheWobble, another thing occured to me..

Your suggestion basically results in a much easier buff run than current.  If the pilot knows that there is no point to even trying to aim, just make sure he's "in the ballpark" where is the skill?  This is a game and needs playability, the is not real life (Ketten needs to pay attention to that last point)


More o my thots

SKurj

[TheWobble]

Getting to the Taget is 99% of the difficulty, I.E. not getting shot down,
once over the target all you have to do is slew the crosshair over targets and drop which is SIMPLE. With the drift you would have to figure out how much drift apart the bombs are gonna have and aim the salvo according. there wouldent be much differece of the bomb run just a matter of how well you can choose your exact targets, with a well placed salvo you will most likley destroy as many targets as if you were aiming them all, its jsut that you dont know what they will be, which is more realistic.  I mean in ww2 when bombers were flying over target its not like they were saying ok get that car, and that care and ooo oo get that guy on the bench. Even as a 99% buff pilot i am kinda discusted that 1 b-17 can totaly destroy a field.  It should be able to put major hurt on a field but not to the point that not a single plane or aircraft can use it.  I mean with a 12 bomb salvo (500's) if it were placed well you would probably hit a few acks and fuel and ammo or 2 and maby even kill a hangar. you would also tear the runway up some for sure which has a may not really stp anyone but itaking off wont be a cake walk for a while.  and as far as playability what is so playable to having ww2 bombs that are more accurate that the newest most accurate laser guided bomb of today?  might as well make the fighters shoot 4k and fly into space.

[Dowding]

 

...1 b-17 can totaly destroy a field...

I don't know why you think this, because it is simply not true. At most a B-17 can take out two hangars, and that is not always guaranteed. As for buffs being intercepted before making it to target - this isn't always true. Providing the Buff is above 20k, they will usually make it to target. Even if the B-17 is intercpeted, it's rarely attacked by more than a single fighter, which any half-decent gunner can kill 80% of the time.

[qts]

A friend whose busines it is once showed me a very good unclassified USAF video on the science of dropping bombs. I don't recall the title.

Perhaps Eagle might oblige?

------------------
qts

[SKurj]

Hmmm lets see ,1 B17 carries 6000lbs of ordnance.  We have 8-9 acks typically per field, 1 100lber per ack = 900lbs.  3 AC hangars at 3000lbs each, = 9000lbs.  1 vehicle Hangar at 2000lbs (i think).  Ok now radar at the field 1 500lber.
Hmm thats around 12,400lbs, and that doesn't take into account the fuel tanks, ammo bunkers, and barracks.
A lanc cannot kill all that in 1 run I don't believe due to loadout restrictions with bomb types.
As a side note 4-5 F4uC's can level the same field much quicker.  In fact 4-5 F4uC's can level HQ just as quickly.

AKSKurj

[Torque]

Fek me you have no idea about playability compared to realism. Wobble if ya want so much realism mount a shotgun to your monitor when your AC is hit pull the trigger.

[Pepino]

Hmmm. I am all for:

• What TheWobble suggest.
• Plus, have a Norden alignement time (yes, like the *other* sim). Here is where Nav skills and maps come useful.
• Plus, revamp the runway & ground damage model. Craters and potholes should stay there a lot longer. Then carpet bombing should mean something. If you carpet bomb an airfield, not only destroyed hangars should hamper the airfield readyness, but also craters themselves would make taking off a lot riskier.
• I feel the blast radius of big eggs is not right. I think (no hard data tho) it should be way larger than it is now.

Cheers,

Pepe