justice for Oscar grant

[sluggish]

Oscar Grant was not resisting the BART cops in any of the videos I have seen. Start watching some videos yourself instead of placing all the blame on the victim. How did he escalate the situation while laying on his stomach? What proof can you cite that he was in fact escalating the situation?

Did Oscar Grant get drunk and fight on the train? Maybe so, but that doesn't mean he deserved to be shot in the back while laying face down on the ground.

I am not saying it was or wasn't intentional because intent doesn't matter when a human life has been taken. Public servants should be just as afraid of the lawful consequences of their actions as Joe Citizen is.

QFT

[Tango]

Oscar Grant was not resisting the BART cops in any of the videos I have seen. Start watching some videos yourself instead of placing all the blame on the victim.

Then you need to go watch the videos that are out there. He was resisting the cops when they were trying to cuff him. THAT would justify an officer to use a taser if they have no idea if they may be armed [he wasn't frisked yet].

IF he had simply allowed them to cuff him he would still be alive today, but instead he resisted.

[Masherbrum]

Prison.

[Rolex]

I don't agree with you, Tango.

I think he'd be alive if someone hadn't shot him in the back while lying face down and being punched in the face for committing the crime of what... sitting on the ground?

[Elfie]

Then you need to go watch the videos that are out there. He was resisting the cops when they were trying to cuff him. THAT would justify an officer to use a taser if they have no idea if they may be armed [he wasn't frisked yet].

IF he had simply allowed them to cuff him he would still be alive today, but instead he resisted.

I've watched every video I could find and not one that I've seen clearly shows him resisting, in fact, in all the ones I've seen he appears to be cooperating. (I have posted a link to a video in this thread) Maybe you could back up your claims with videos of your own.

Again, you put all the blame on the victim. Who's responsibility was it to ensure that a tazer was pulled instead of a pistol? (If subduing Grant was the objective.) Who cocked the pistol? Who released the safety on the pistol? Why were these individuals NOT frisked for weapons immediately?

[Elfie]

I don't agree with you, Tango.

I think he'd be alive if someone hadn't shot him in the back while lying face down and being punched in the face for committing the crime of what... sitting on the ground?

Exactly.

[hlbly]

The video shows that boy is holding his hands up palms out . For body language what does that say ? The officer pulls the weapon braces both arms , for body language what does that say ? As for safeties , if the weapon is known for malfunction why is it being issued ? When I was in the Army we were trained in the use of force for guard duties , we were trained to use only the amount of force necessary to stop an individual from entering a site or stealing USA property . Surely police are not trained to use the maximum amount of force in that situation . Also I don't see how anyone can say that the boy was fighting . What I saw was a police officer not happy with the speed that his orders were being carried out . Question an officer about anything , refuse to answer some question they have no right asking . See what happens . Question why they take too long responding to a burglary call in a small town see what happens . If you think that you must do something to warrant bad behavior from a cop ask anodizer about that .

[Tango]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVsncZ7K584

Sure is funny how people see what they think is happening instead of what is.

Video shows him resisting while they are trying to put cuffs on him.

[bongaroo]

And that justifies shooting him?  That is messed up.

[Masherbrum]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVsncZ7K584

Sure is funny how people see what they think is happening instead of what is.

Video shows him resisting while they are trying to put cuffs on him.

Rodney King did worse before being cuffed (exceeded 100+ on a police chase, was drunk, resisted arrest and more) and didn't lose his life over a "mistake".   

[Tango]

And that justifies shooting him?  That is messed up.

With a tazer, yes.

[hlbly]

Pirone was "surprised" by Mehserle's act of drawing and firing his weapon, Creighton said.

The prosecutor said Mehserle told Pirone several minutes later, "Tony, I thought he was going for a gun."

But Creighton said Mehserle never said anything to Pirone about a gun during his attempt to gain control of Grant's hands and Grant was unarmed  when he was shot.

"Mehserle's suggestion that he may have discharged his firearm in the mistaken belief that he was deploying his Taser is disingenuous in light  of his claim that he thought the victim (Grant) was 'going for a gun,'"  Creighton said.

The prosecutor said that if Mehserle thought that he and other officers were exposed to deadly force by Grant he "would not and should not  have deployed a Taser" because he should have used a gun instead.

Creighton added that the position of Mehserle's Taser "in relation to his duty weapon, combined with the different 'feel' and color of the two  weapons makes it highly unlikely that he would have mistaken one for the  other."

At the bail hearing, Jacobson agreed with Creighton, saying he believes Mehserle's statements about what happened "seem to be inconsistent."



These are the statements of fellow police officers and the D.A. He said "I thought he was going for a gun" . So the tazer angle is just BS .

[Tango]

So you are saying because he was resisting is the reason it escalated to the point of the officer reacting?

Guess that means he would still be alive if he had done what the cops said and not resisted.

Thats the point I've been making but everyone wants to lynch the cop and put ALL the blame on him. The cop is responsible for his actions but none want to make Grant responsible for his.

[bongaroo]

Sorry.  Police officers are trained and paid and expected to follow the rules of escalation.

Are you a cop Tango?

[Elfie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVsncZ7K584

Sure is funny how people see what they think is happening instead of what is.

Video shows him resisting while they are trying to put cuffs on him.

I hadn't seen this video, I'm not sure how I missed this one at youtube.

He wasn't as cooperative as I had originally thought but that still doesn't excuse the use of deadly force. It was 3 cops on one man and they had him face down on the ground. Shooting him in the back in that situation is nothing more than an execution. How you can still try to defend that is incomprehensible, especially in light of the fact that the shooter can't seem to get his story straight.