Author Topic: Why are they leaving?  (Read 11869 times)

Offline humble

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #105 on: January 14, 2009, 10:48:44 AM »
The real key here is the movement from a game based on air combat to a game based on other factors. Originally the "war" framed the fighting, now fighting is just an inconvenience on the way to "winning". Real wars are won by attrition and numbers not the skill of the individual combatants, as the game moves toward a truer simulation of war this is the reality.

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Offline waystin2

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #106 on: January 14, 2009, 11:04:50 AM »
I got into AH about a year and half ago, and it was because of a love for the WWII aviation genre.  The chance to fly the planes that I played with when I was a kid.  How cool is that? :rock  It is still awesome every time I login. :aok  Is it possible that some of these folks have lost that wonder or amazement?
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Offline Murdr

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #107 on: January 14, 2009, 11:05:32 AM »
  A sequential capture system has to be put in place to prevent sneaking on the large maps.

Already been done.  I'm not sure why that mechanic fell by the wayside.

Offline 1Boner

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #108 on: January 14, 2009, 11:10:26 AM »
  A sequential capture system has to be put in place to prevent sneaking on the large maps.


Why?
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Offline hammer

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #109 on: January 14, 2009, 11:21:15 AM »

Why?

So the horde monkies don't just move to an empty part of the map when some resistance pops up.

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Hammer
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Offline Simaril

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #110 on: January 14, 2009, 11:28:53 AM »
As I recall, the sequential capture system just seemed to stall everything. Maybe it was the way it was implemented, and maybe it's just a difficult thing to implement at all.

Conceptually, though, I see a major problem with this -- while sequential capture would prevent sneaks and almost eliminate steamrolling hordes (that would have to fight each other), wouldn't it also INCREASE the "no progress, just attrition" effect? Slamming huge numbers into each other would almost guarantee you'd NEVER get troops through....everyone base fighter's attention would be focused in just one place, it seems to me. What's more, the guys hiding in hordes would find even more "success" since it would be almost impossible to catch them away from some high alt friendly.

Not sure such a change would solve anything.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #111 on: January 14, 2009, 11:34:33 AM »
So the horde monkies don't just move to an empty part of the map when some resistance pops up.

Regards,

Hammer

JUST  follow em.

when i was with the HG, and we used to fly in EW, there was one other main squadron in there. sometimes they stayed and fought....others they went to an undefended base. we simply followed them to their new target. always made for good fight...both in the air and on the ground.
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Offline humble

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #112 on: January 14, 2009, 11:43:24 AM »
This is vastly exaggerated. Or your definition of "minimal" skill is a very personal one ;)

Lusche,

I couldn't find the clip I wanted, I'm guessing that I deleted it after sending it but here is another similar clip with another observer the same weekend. From my perspective as a former trainer I think the hardest aspect for me was trying to actually understand what the "trainee" was seeing/thinking and then "re-engineering" [for lack of a better term] the feedback loop. Sometimes the person didn't "see" it right other times they had a faulty understanding of how to respond or lacked an understanding of cause and effect. In the end I found that I could often "drill down" to a point where certain concepts could be tested and often a light bulb would go on. I'd say the biggest area of confusion was specific to the role of ACM and "dogfighting" as it related to flying for survival/score. The simple reality is that only the guy dogfighting is the guy dieing. You as the predator are simply moving from 1 target to the next. If you end up in a prolonged engagement not totally in your control you made a mistake. Your ACM skills only exist as an insurance policy...
http://www.az-dsl.com/snaphook/film137.ahf

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Offline hammer

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #113 on: January 14, 2009, 11:46:24 AM »
JUST  follow em....

You're allowed to do that?  :O   :D
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #114 on: January 14, 2009, 11:48:40 AM »
I don't think sequential capture has to mean only one base at a time.  Rather, there might be 3-4 bases that could be captured along the front-line to spread out the action a bit; but no more searching the map for bases flashing in the most isolated corners of the map.
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Offline waystin2

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #115 on: January 14, 2009, 11:52:21 AM »
I don't think sequential capture has to mean only one base at a time.  Rather, there might be 3-4 bases that could be captured along the front-line to spread out the action a bit; but no more searching the map for bases flashing in the most isolated corners of the map.
I do like this sequential capture idea, but as you said it does need to be spread over more than just a front or two(to avoid apocalyptic proportioned battles).
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Offline beddog

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #116 on: January 14, 2009, 12:01:24 PM »
They died every way, they killed every way and they saw all there is to see. Personally, I found myself yawnin on my first takeoff of the day too many times to pay for it. Repetitive game play is just going to happen and if you can't find other aspects of the game to keep you hooked then your done.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 12:04:23 PM by beddog »
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Offline detch01

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #117 on: January 14, 2009, 12:03:11 PM »
  I've been playing this type of game online since June of 97, starting with AWII. The mechanics of game-play between then and now isn't really all that different. AH is technically far superior to any other online game of the genre out there, but it remains the same old style of game - albeit with better physics/flight/gunnery/damage models, etc. But there are two major differences between AH and what AW was: the level of anonymity in the games and the capability for pulling off a head-on shot. When I log on I don't recognize many of the CPIDs I see on the roster, in AW I did. In the AW arenas, with their regular populations you quickly got to the point of logging in looking forward to playing with and against other players. AH doesn't have that for the larger population. To a large degree you don't know, or sometimes even know of, the player you're engaged with or winging with so that other player becomes more a play-thing than another player. The HO, well that capability in AH makes the ho-run possible and that game-play style breeds contempt for those who value the fight over the kill - to players who play for the fight it's more of an insult than a contest.   
  IMO the anonymity fix is easy - fix the size of the arenas and let time do its thing. There'll be lots of whining and moaning at first but I'll bet once the initial raft of "Screw it I quit" posts is over and players get a chance to get to know the other players in their home arenas that fairly stable communities grow around those arenas. Community is what keeps players around, without it any game degenerates into a repetitive activity after a while.
  The ho-run is a non-starter. HTC has already made that decision and unless they change their minds it's here to stay.
   On the whole, AH is a good game. I still have fun playing it. Kudo's to HTC for their accomplishments with the game - there are many - but there's no such thing as something that can't be improved upon.

<EDIT>
HTC has proven over time that no matter how much you tweak game-play (fm improvements, capture models, whathaveyou) you won't impact on what really makes an online game tick - it's community.
</EDIT>

My 0.02

asw

 
« Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 12:07:23 PM by detch01 »
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Offline Wingnutt

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #118 on: January 14, 2009, 12:12:09 PM »
Ive onl been playing and paying for a year, but Ive popped in and out ever since warbirds, always kept an eye on the game.

to me it seems the flight model is a lot lower fidelity than it was way back.  that may entirely be my perspective, bit just seems there is less "feel" to the game now... the sharp corners have been shaved off..  auto take off, auto combat trip, stall limiter, clipboard map with arrow pointing where you are going...

You dont have to know how to take off, hold level, navigate.. nothing..

aircraft (all of them) seem way to stable... there is no wind..   for me it takes the FLYING aspect almost out the game..  it seems less like a combat flight sim and more like a First Person Shooter with airplanes..

my take probably doesn't make sense, probably shouldn't, im just trying to explain my take which is hard.

what irks me more, is that people EXPECT this crap..

example..

take the clipboard map.. that shows where you are and what direction you are facing..  get rid of the little plane icon.. and replace it with a dot..

you still know exactly where you are.. but you have to look at your compass to determine your direction..  SIMPLE..  guess what, people would piss and cry in droves.. that they have to go through all the trouble at looking at a instrument to see what direction they are facing.


I remember a time when bomb craters would damage your landing gear if you drove through them at speed... I can only imagine what caused that to be nerfed.. but let me guess.

 "oh no, there is a bomb crater in the runway, I actually have to make an effort to take off.. that sucks, im not paying to have take off, im paying to pwn n00bs!!"  "how am I supposed to spawn out and die over and over again several times a minute if I have to drive around this dang crater! this sucks!!"

the you get into stick stirring, and unrealistic manuevers that in no way shape or form could be pulled off by anyone EVER...  you come in chasing a guy both of you doing over 400mph and out of nowhere he slams nose down pulling probably -10Gs   gimme a break.. his eyeballs would pop out of his head, he would look like the damn cookie monster..  if that doesn't throw here comes the aircraft rendition of thriller..  time for us to flop up and down roll in a symphony of mindless spastic undulations.. its not hard to counter, but thats not the point, that crap shouldn't even be possible.

the list goes on, some things bother different folks more than others...  for mer, personally no one of these things ive mentioned are in and of themselves "deal breakers" but when you deal with them all together, it really sullys the game play (for me).  which is why I all too often find myself logging on, flying 1 maybe 2 sorts.. and then logging off..


nothing.. well few things would make me happier that if all the AUTO crap was gone.. from autakeoff to auto trim..  to fly the airplane you have to FLY the airplane..

but that will never happen? why..  you see it on the text every day 

"how do I start my engine"

"go to the TA" "read the website"

"i dont wanna, just tell me"

"how do I put up my gear" 

"go to the TA, read the website"


these people, they aren't necessary idiots.. some are.. but mostly they just don't want to make any EFFORT to do.. ANYTHING..  that's just society in general.. everyone wants things given, but doesent want to earn them.  Im sure many of these crutches built in the game are specifically to cater to these people who want instant gratification with not effort put forth on their part..  too bad it carries such a diluting factor, because others have to put up with them.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 12:20:53 PM by Wingnutt »

Offline Murdr

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Re: Why are they leaving?
« Reply #119 on: January 14, 2009, 12:29:18 PM »
  IMO the anonymity fix is easy - fix the size of the arenas and let time do its thing. There'll be lots of whining and moaning at first but I'll bet once the initial raft of "Screw it I quit" posts is over and players get a chance to get to know the other players in their home arenas that fairly stable communities grow around those arenas. Community is what keeps players around, without it any game degenerates into a repetitive activity after a while.

IMO the largest road block to this is that payers can choose from arenas with limited choices, and two arenas with all choices availible.  It's a no brainer that everyone will go where all choices are availible (open planeset).  I have said since the week of the arena splits that I don't see how the concept of players finding a "home arena" is possible with unique arena setups along side the same old open plane set arenas.