Hoing defined ?

[The Fury]

Ho`s usually are easy to avoid i agree but today i came across a 190 he was coming right at me got to 1.5k i see no sign of him firing so i think ill duck under him and over the top as soon as im gna make my move i start receiving damage turns out the guy has tracers turned off and i moved to late. Got me thinking tho if we had no tracers on perminantly no one would no about the ho until it was 2 late.

 

[BaldEagl]

I avoid 98% of all HO attempts by flying straight at the guy then rolling into a simple barrel roll at the last second.  It's a very difficult move to follow for the HOer and unlike the dive under him doesn't bleed any E.

Normally I like to follow this by reversing the roll direction into an Immelman or a high yoyo.  The con will normally react to your vector at the time he passes and he'll typically lose vis on you on the double move giving you an immediate advantage when you're not where he expects you to be.

[The Fugitive]

What did you do to my beautiful pictures !!!!   

OK lets look at the fight turning into what you butchered.... ummm set up here 



In the picture to the left the blue plane avoids the HO. By the time the red plane reaches its second point the blue plane would be a bit further along than what you have there given equal "E" states. If you go nose low as the red plane gets to guns range it forces him into a "redout" to try and make his shot, blues aggressive move instead of continuing nose low to the left, break high and to the right in a barrel roll to catch the red planes 6. Or extend after completing 270 degrees of the turn and extend if you are more careful. Either way at the shot opportunity I'm giving him a slim profile shot, and forcing him more toward where "I" want him. After a HO you only guess where they are going.

[Murdr]

Forgive my crude work Fugi, but I modified the image slightly to depict a potential mid-point problem I am imagining, particularly if it turns out your opponent does not wish to HO...?

This is a dynamic situation, and not easily diagramed out.  You take a heading several degrees off the mid point between you and your opponent.  He commits to a nose on attitude, then you turn into him to close off his potential of gaining guns angle.  If timed right what you are really doing is entering his turn circle just ahead of his guns.


In this figure we are looking directly nose on into the bogies guns.  If you make it to this point and are ahead of the bandits pitch ange, you've likely eliminated a true guns threat.  With the closure rate of an average merge, and low separation, the aspect angle is changing at an insane rate.  Well beyond the capibility of a bandits best instantanious rate of turn.  Meaning he's unable to ever "catch up" in angles to connect a shot.

Or as Lute aptly describes:

You go to pull guns and they are JUST out of solution. 

[TonyJoey]

Takes 2 to merge, 1 to HO 

[BnZs]

What did you do to my beautiful pictures !!!!   

OK lets look at the fight turning into what you butchered.... ummm set up here 

(Image removed from quote.)

In the picture to the left the blue plane avoids the HO. By the time the red plane reaches its second point the blue plane would be a bit further along than what you have there given equal "E" states. If you go nose low as the red plane gets to guns range it forces him into a "redout" to try and make his shot, blues aggressive move instead of continuing nose low to the left, break high and to the right in a barrel roll to catch the red planes 6. Or extend after completing 270 degrees of the turn and extend if you are more careful.

I don't have much problem avoiding the HO when there is room available to duck...its on the deck when  in a relatively low E state that it seems like one party can turn it into a HO if they want.

Either way at the shot opportunity I'm giving him a slim profile shot, and forcing him more toward where "I" want him. After a HO you only guess where they are going.

Um...but giving them a slim profile shot is still giving them a shot, is it not? I'm even more worried about the possibility that the guy would *not* take the shot and would lag off somewhere into the rear quarter already possessing a big chunk of angles.

[GGhost]

Head on Dogfights of World War II does happen and is part of being a true fighter pilot.

So this will happen in this game, since it happens to be a combat simulator game of WORLD WAR II.

If you can't handle head on dogfights, that your problem.

Here is a link for proof - posted from a WWII pilot book.

http://www.cebudanderson.com/carson02.htm

Dog Fight over Germany

by Ken Hodges

<S> GGHOST 

[The Fugitive]

Head on Dogfights of World War II does happen and is part of being a true fighter pilot.

So this will happen in this game, since it happens to be a combat simulator game of WORLD WAR II.

If you can't handle head on dogfights, that your problem.

Here is a link for proof - posted from a WWII pilot book.

http://www.cebudanderson.com/carson02.htm

Dog Fight over Germany

by Ken Hodges

<S> GGHOST 

The point is, this is a game !! real life/wwii doesn't compare. The HO shot <---- note that word, its important..... is a lame, skillless tactic. If its the only trick in your bag, you might as well go play some first person shooter where you re-spawn endlessly.

Turning into a HO maneuver <---- notice its a different word now..... is a maneuver that happens often in the game, mostly due to the fact a lot of players can't tell which way the other plane is going. Using the closing tangent as the starting point in a maneuver to get your self into a firing solution is called "fighting" which by the way is the main purpose of the game, ie: to fight !

[CAP1]

Turning into a HO maneuver <---- notice its a different word now..... is a maneuver that happens often in the game, mostly due to the fact a lot of players can't tell which way the other plane is going. Using the closing tangent as the starting point in a maneuver to get your self into a firing solution is called "fighting" which by the way is the main purpose of the game, ie: to fight !

ya know.....i find myself making this mistake more often lately. i think i'm closing ona guys 6, then next thing i know, he's really big in my screen, and his guns blazing.......

[Yeager]

More menstrual flows from the whinetard crowd.  Friggin HO is a guns solution baby, stay out of it and quit crying like babies.

[BnZs]

The interesting thing is how often in these pilot reports you read "made a head-on pass...no hits scored".

By contrast, for whatever reason, HO passes are nothing but M.A.D. in AHII 90% of the time.

[humble]

I've always been of the opinion that the "HO" is a myth. It's very very difficult to get 2 planes directly "head on" to each other for any significant period of time unless both pilots want it. Separate from the "straight at them" head on at the merge the 2nd is the who got around 1st HO. The 1st is very easy to avoid (just give me a shout anytime and I'll be happy to show you in the TA) and the 2nd is more like an old west gun fight...you either clear leather 1st or you don't.

Now in a good 1 on 1 both sides elect to avoid that nose to nose shot within reason. However it's also perfectly fine to hose the guy if in fact you did get around first and the other guy is attempting to minimize the angle off vs evading. The pic below is from me sitting on a guy trying to do just that...so in the end I popped in the canopy BEFORE he could set up a mutual HO. If you have the shot and the other guy keeps coming then just light him up and let him complain...the flip side is that in a good fight if the guy eases off to avoid the nose to nose I pass on the FQ shot and assume that we are now in more of a 3/9 line fight. Really good fights take some nurturing but are well worth it....

[Wedge1126]

... you might as well go play some first person shooter where you re-spawn endlessly.

Last I checked, we fly fighters and shoot in the first person, and I haven't heard about a re-spawn limit of any kind.

[GGhost]

Head on Dogfights of World War II does happen and is part of being a true fighter pilot.

So this will happen in this game, since it happens to be a combat simulator game of WORLD WAR II.

If you can't handle head on dogfights, that your problem.

Here is a link for proof - posted from a WWII pilot book.

http://www.cebudanderson.com/carson02.htm

Dog Fight over Germany


by Ken Hodges

<S> GGHOST 

I re utter my point.

So all the generals - from General Robins Olds, a fighter pilot ace in 2 or more wars is a lame pilot.

That's my opinion that people are crying. And cannot handle the head on dogfight.

Learn from it and move on.

Crying about it because you get shot down does you no good in dealing with the dogfight.

You will still be the lame duck getting shot down again to cry some more and post another (HO) head on post.

Bottom line LEARN AND MOVE ON.

<S> GGHOST

[1Boner]

Most of the time I will try to steer clear of firing on the merge, only to receive a snoot full myself.(deflection shot )

But every now and then I will get some one who actually wants to fight and we merge multiple times without firing a fq shot.

The best fights I've had are when both of us are jockying for the 6 o'clock shot.

The Ho shot or FQ shot on the merge are performed by guys who want the kill, not the fight.

I'm finding it harder and harder not to pull the trigger on the merge.

And whether they were a common tactic in WW2 or not, they are extremely prevelent in this game, and I guess its something that I have to live with. Like it or not.