Business Idea, - flight instruction

[Angus]

Just had this crazy idea, which could benefit both our turbulent country (Iceland) as well as flight enthusiasts/students down in Europe.
It so happens that the nation is very well off with both pilots, instructors and small aircraft. By the hundreds actually!
I remember from meeting pilots as well as instructors some years back in both the UK and Germany, that they found our costs of flying to be rather cheap.
Now our currency has crashed, so I call upon you Europeans on this boards, - well Americans too, - to tell me how the price of a small aircraft with a qualified instructor (IAR) being $150 for the hour, that makes about 120 Euros.
If the price is right or okay, the perks are more. Firstly, this is the price of a single hour, - buy them by the bundle and the discount goes to 20%.
Secondly it is the summer climate (Yes!). The country has several weather zones, so when it for instance bogs down in the south, it is bright and nice in the North. Always good somewhere within a reasonable distance.
Thirdly it is the latitude. Mid summer there is no night! Fly, fly and fly!
Fourthly it is the country. It is littered with small runways for private flying as well as small commercial airports. Accommodation is available all over as well. We are after all, a tourist country and growing.
And finally it is the airspace. Plenty of airspace. Now the Nato guys from Europe are coming here for practice!
The freedom once up is amazing, and every summer I enjoy a good round of flying with completely spontaneous decisions about where to go and what to have a look at.
So, does that make some sense to you?

[Angus]

Nobody?

[Golfer]

If the TSA keeps going the way they're going here in the US I might just come over.   

[Wolfala]

We can get 100LL here for $2.34 / gallon without having to pay for use of the airspace. What is the airspace cost and fuel per gallon?

[Angus]

The airspace AFAIK is free. The fuel is pricy. The Price I quoted has everything in it, Instructor, aircraft and fuel. The airplane and fuel + airspace would then be close to 115 $ or rough 90 Euros, for those who have a license. This would apply to a two seater trainer such as Cessna 152 or so.
There is a handful of Ultralights around as well.
I have both parties landing at my home field and parking by the house. They go shopping etc, and off again.
Prices vary a bit from type-to-type as well as clubs, discounts as well.
2 engined trainers are quite expensive, but maybe not so compared to Europe.

[Angus]

One of the little ones. Hope that link works:

It's a Diamond DA-20 C1. Primary instruction trainer. Would be about $140 with the instructor.

[AKHog]

So what exactly is your 'idea'? To attract flight students from other countries to come and train there? This is what we've been doing in the USA for years, we've trained more pilots than anyone, especially for other countries' military and airlines.

For prices, it does vary throughout the country. My local airport charges $115-125 for Cessna 172's, depending on how nice and how big of an engine. Instructors run about $40-45 an hour. There are no 152's at my airport but you can rent them in other areas for about $100 an hour, sometimes less again depending on how nice of a plane it is. This price includes fuel, and there is no fees to fly except maybe a landing fee at very large airports.

As far as weather, your logic is a little flawed. First of all you simply can't say that if its nasty here, it will be clear over there, that just ignores all kinds of meteorology and is a gross oversimplification. Secondly, if you are in basic training the only weather that matters is where you are flying. If its raining at the airport, you won't be training, even if its sunny everywhere else. The USA has you beat here too, at some of the busier flight schools in Arizona and in Florida they can average over 320 flyable days in a year.

So, the reason the USA has trained more pilots than anyone is because of our prices, our weather in some areas, and our quality of training. No where else in the world will you be trained using the latest methods, the best technology, yet at some of the lowest prices.
 

[Angus]

That was my idea yes, or sort of combine aviation and tourism.
The prices seem to be similar to yours, ours slightly above. (I bet the difference is just the fuel).
Our regulations are the same as in Europe (IAR), not sure exactly how they are in the USA. This is a relatively new thing, and most pilots say it's a pain in the butt.
Our pilots used to go to the USA before quite a bit. Typically to Arizona. In our wintertime they could fly several hours a day, but in the summer however our days are much longer.
I imagine Europe to be quite a bit more expensive and you hardly go anywhere without a very stiff flight plan.
I know pilots down there that gave up for it was too expensive, or not enough fun.
So, for Europeans we offer about the same chances as the USA in the summer season for about the same price, but we are much closer, - it's just a 3 hrs flight to the center of Europe.
Got to check out the regulation part though.
As a side note, the German nut-head that flew his Cessna over to Moscow and landed on the Red square in the middle of the cold war (Making a joke out of the USSR air defence) trained over here before embarking on his "mission". Here he could do endless criss-crossing over the country without a stiff plan as well as some low flying where nobody could see him.
Oh, I do get buzzed by my friends every summer, many times
C-172 is BTW a very common trainer. And for riding in a cushion, Socata:

And a C-172 on the red square in 1987

Article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust
So, come on you Euro-AH'ers, gimme some Euro-prices

[Serenity]

Eh, I guess if youre the average joe that sounds like a great deal! Me though, as a member of CAP, I get a Cessna 172/182 at $75/hour wet.

[Angus]

What I thought, it would be cheaper in the USA.
Still hoping for a European to pop in. The ones that I know about doing some "hopping" around here said it's both cheaper and vastly more free than down in Europe, which is exactly what I expected.

[Golfer]

Angus an ancient Chinese proverb actually states:

"One who wishes to make a small fortune in aviation must start with a large one."

Very very best of luck to you if you decide to do this but your story isn't new and it isn't one with a high rate of success or meaningful return on investment.

[CyranoAH]

Angus, the prices you are suggesting are about the same as you would get in Spain, Portugal, or Italy, with the same good weather, plus the perk of being much closer and cheaper in terms of travelling there.
The good thing is Iceland is an EASA member, so your Icelandic pilot license is good in Europe.

If lodging prices are way cheaper you may have a chance, but you are going to face a lot of competition.

In any case, for aspiring commercial pilots in Europe, the states is still the preferred option. Dirt cheap gas, flying schools everywhere, and price packages that make it more affordable to go to the states, pay for lodging, transportation, and the flying hours, if you want to fly from 100 hours upwards.

Good luck!

Daniel

[Angus]

Ah good to know.
We do have a lot of airspace though. so one is not so confined to flightpaths. BTW NO landing fees and no charge for the airspace. The landing fees begin in some fields with 2 engines and 6000 lbs+
In the summer the daylight here is also close to twice that in S-Europe.
Wonder what the prices are in Germany.

[Wolfala]

Ah good to know.
We do have a lot of airspace though. so one is not so confined to flightpaths. BTW NO landing fees and no charge for the airspace. The landing fees begin in some fields with 2 engines and 6000 lbs+
In the summer the daylight here is also close to twice that in S-Europe.
Wonder what the prices are in Germany.

I can speak to this. I rented my SR-20 to a guy from Germany at a block rate of around $120 per hour dry in december 07. At the time, prices were going for $300 dry @ $3 per liter with a 10 gal/hr fuel burn. Thats roughly $475/$500 per hour. Stuff more down towards reality with a 20/30 year old airframe, a C182 at $375 wet nicely equipped. They squeeze your nuts so badly in Europe b/c flying is viewed as an elitist activity - so you have airspace charges, ATC charges, taxi, tie down and a bunch of ancillary other BS that unless you are out of an uncontrolled field in the middle of nowhere - its a pain in the bellybutton to do anything useful. Airspace charges are around 10 cents a mile. Major reason why they'd rather just go to the U.S. Unless you are landing at JFK during a peak time - you make up the rental price difference in under 10 hours including your travel and lodging.

Here's a good article for your review - deals with Germany as an example.

http://www.aopa.org/pilot/features/2007/feat0704.html

[Angus]

AHA! So I do finally have a good idea!
3 hrs flight from Frankfurt to here, 2 hrs drive to the airport. Nearest landing strip ends at the house wall!