All hail...

[Wingnutt]

Maybe you make your plan so that the goonS arrive 15 minutes AFTER the attack, and at 5-7 k altitude. This way, goon hunters are low and ineffective. Can you use SKILL to hold the attack in place long enough for your goon to arrive? Try it, not only does it work, the thrill of holding off the enemy is a pretty good rush. Problem is, can you guys fight as well as you talk? 

15 min AFTER attack town, hangars, VH is popping..  mission fail.

you bring goons in at 5-7 k the troops will get shot, guaranteed.. mission fail.

try to "escort" the goons down from 5-7k.. they will get killed, even if you outnumber the enemy 5 to 1...

[WMLute]

problem is, your little scenario right here is 99% of the time pure fiction, you wont get a capture without the element of surprise.. damn sure not against superior numbers,  for the exact reason stated before... as soon as the enemy recognize whats going on, they will totally ignore all fighters and bombers and focus their attack on the goon(s) 

Your glorified mano e mano BS wont happen, if your lucky you will get a few picks killing LAs that are oblivious to you as they hurtle towards the C47s, but not much more than that..

in then end your massive well planned mission is an absolute an utter failure because within 1 minute of your arrival all your goons are dead from kamikaze attacks.  after that if your lucky you might get a cap on the airfield and get a vulch going.. how wonderful and honorable  that is... good fights there seeing who cant pop the guy at the runways spawn first, YAY!    Or the opposition will simply choose to totally ignore you and stop even trying to take off, knowing full well the spine of your attack is broken and you cant get another goon to town before it starts popping anyway. roll a wirble or 3 to town, your screwed forget it.


meanwhile, in the same amount of time 1/4 the amount of people have taken 3 of your bases while you flail helplessly in your valiant attempt at getting one..   

at least you can pat yourself on the back while your waiting on the map to reset.

That might be YOUR experience, but don't speak for me. 

We are in two totally different worlds it seems when it comes to gameplay.

I get those captures.  I have the knowledge, skill, and ability to make those captures happen.  (and of course it helps if I have the support of some others that also have said ability, skill and knowledge. such as most any pilot in the WidowMakers <excepting NwBie of course> and one of the best goon pilots in the game <Spacer>)

Sure it might take a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th (5th, 6th) effort, but I will get the capture.(most the time)  And the capture is all the much sweeter because I/we had to work for it.

It's not the quantity, it's the quality.

Who really gives a flip if I COULD HAVE taken 5 undefended fields.  Like I previously said, you might as well fly offline if that is the kind of action you want.  Where is the fun in toolsheding some field with little to no bad guys there?  (boooooring)

Me?  I want to FIGHT for the field.  I WANT them to up and defend and defend valliantly.

If you are failing 99% of the time then it SOUNDS like you and yours need to train.  Train hard and practice for 6 months and you will see you maybe only fail 75% of the time.  Keep at it and practice for another year or so and it might drop to 50%.  (see what i'm getting at?)

I GUESS you could cop out and fly the path of least resistence and hoard up and attack NOE.  But by doing so when you have to actually fight for the base, you are going to fail.

99% of the time.

[Murdr]

1st the town starts flashin, then the base starts flashing!!

How much more of an alarm is needed?

The real question is--Why don't the bad guys up and defend??

If no-one ups to defend a flashing base, it most certainly can't be blamed on the noe attack!

Jeeez, they gave ya enough notice!

OMG! OMG!!!  One of our countries one hundered and two fields just started flashing    Stop the presses!!  Stop the presses!!!

[oTRALFZo]

The only light at the end of the tunnel is that at some point or another..large "horde" base taking will eventually get old as these pilots progress. Sad thing is that there are many that will take their place.
I admit to joining forces in the herd, but time after time of landing with a full rack of ammo just got wayyy to boring.
I find the utmost joy when these "mega" hordes of 50 come to take a base and it only takes 2-3 ppl to take them right back

[Wingnutt]

OMG! OMG!!!  One of our countries one hundered and two fields just started flashing    Stop the presses!!  Stop the presses!!!

well, if they ignore it, they lose it.. 

pretty realistic IMO..

so you thinkbefore the knights take a rook base, they should announce on 200..  "attn rooks, we are going to take a base, please clear your schedule for the next 10 min to stop us, sorry for the inconvenience"


fact of the matter is, not that I expect anyone to admit it, is that NOEs succeed largely due to the malaze of the other team..  maybe your climbing to 25k in your lancs, maybe your busy furballing and shooting other engaged planes, maybe your buisy at 15k looking for that magic 1v1 duel that will make your e-noodle feel larger... whatever...   fact of the matter is you IGNORE the OBVIOUS signs that a base is under attack..   then get on here and piss, cry and chest thump about..    .. how the method by which your base was taken was somehow "lame" .. because it was so effective...     

NOEs can be defeated, easily..  but like you said.. everyone on this game wants the path of least resistance, in many cases that means ignoring a base under attack because you know you face an uphill battle..

I guess its much harder and not as fun to defend a base against a superior force, than it is to do nothing, and come on here and flog your tear soaked pillow against the keyboard.

[WMLute]

fact of the matter is, not that I expect anyone to admit it, is that NOEs succeed largely due to the malaze of the other team..  maybe your climbing to 25k in your lancs, maybe your busy furballing and shooting other engaged planes, maybe your buisy at 15k looking for that magic 1v1 duel that will make your e-noodle feel larger... whatever...   fact of the matter is you IGNORE the OBVIOUS signs that a base is under attack..   then get on here and piss, cry and chest thump about..    .. how the method by which your base was taken was somehow "lame" .. because it was so effective... 

The ONLY reason the NOE is so effective is that it takes 10-15min to get a defence setup and if the NOE is done right you only need 5-10 for the capture.  It's not malaze.  You and yours are COUNTING on the nme being occupied elsewhere.  (duh)  Otherwise you would have to fight for the field and we know what the end result will be if that happens.  (at least 99% of the time that is according to you)

I never said a NOE hoard was not effective in capturing a field that is not defended.  I AM posing the question why would one want to do it in the first place?  Sure the occasion NOE base capture has it's purpose, but it should be the exception not the rule.

I would like you to go back and re-read what I had to say about that stlye of gameplay and what it promotes.

You know what will happen if large squads start doing NOE hoard missions after NOE hoard missions toolshedding undefended fields?  We end up with an arena full of skilless noobs pounding their chest about what great base takers they are that die quick if they ever end up in a 1 on 1 fight.

Oh wait...

Never mind that has allready happened.


(and might I add that the group of 8-10 we fought last night and demolished when we had 5-6 was made up of some members of Rolling Thunder.  Wouldn't you rather be the 5-6 winning vs. the 8-10?  You won't ever figure out how to do that doing NOE raids to undefended fields)

[Animl]

I understand you're point, and it's vaild IMO, not that it matters coming from me.

But think about how many dogfights were saved from the likes that were tied up doing this, they are in a sandbox right where you need them. Look the other way, welders flash sucks.

There are several ways to look at this, depending on POV.

If there weren't so many bases for them to get lost in a dark corner to do this, it would have be real cool in the middle of that battle, especially with AC too. Equal sides of a battle like that? YA MAN!! A total shame they chose to be off somewhere where it couldn't be appreciated.

Is this event good or bad, I dunno.

>IMO< This is a ripple effect of the arenas just too big, and too many bases, you can't really cover all bases. Me thinks the size is very important. Not that HTC hasn't paid attention to it,....just difference of opinion.

Someone inform me if I tend to seem clueless.
AC and GV Caps on bases. I may have missed whether it was ever implemented in AH or not, I think it was>?
In the other game, caps *were* excellent in keeping battles somewhat more even over the map. If the battles were spread more even, someone would have been there, or close enough, enjoying a great slaughter. Milk running is hard in a slightly cramped map.

>IMO< Unlimited is arcadeish. This is an element that distracts from History and reality for me. It more enables things like this,.. good or bad.

Organize a real solution. It would make it easier for the Cods of the game to make valued changes. They tried this and that, maybe it's proven "that" was better. <shrug> Majority rules from what I understand. Just don't get retarded about it.

How many GVs or AC did a normal base supply at a time in RL? 30 tanks sounds within reason.
How about a FR arena, where all the AC and Map settings were more realistic (no flight aids)? Has any of this been tried before?

If all we do is base things on what the easy-mode peeps want, the game can only move backwards, and I see that motion starting to happen, to be honest. If you can't ignore the easy-mode peeps, give the vets something they can form to their liking. Why does what someone spent $120 on take away from those who have spent $700 or more on subscriptions and time invested? I hate seeing a perfect thing destroyed because there are more game-box types then real simmers. The actions chases more vets out and we have this cycle.

Ok maybe I shouldn't have said that, but I did.

Here's another thought, if they don't give you an something like an FR,...Involve your selves in more events\scenarios. Most of you sound like you'd be better off in events. If there are not enough events,...make one, join the team. Maybe that's where arena vets need to graduate to.

Rule # 2: Arenas are just for practice.

ANimL

[stodd]

...the "great" landgrab warriors!
Rolling undefended fields like Thunder across the valley.
The true elite Raptors of the Aces High skies.


The il2 just doesn't have enough ammo...

(Image removed from quote.)

Oh if only the VH had been up..they would all be dead.

[1Boner]

The BIG difference between you and me is when I am heading towards an enemy base and I see a large dar bar pop up I think "WOOT! This is gonna be fun!" whereas you think "Durn, now I gotta look for a diff. base to attack because they are defending this one"

We're probably not as different as you would think.

You're assuming an awful lot about people (including me) you don't even know.

How the hell can you say that I ( and others) don't enjoy some of the same things in this game that you do?

You think you're the only one in this game that likes to fight?

Snap out of it, just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong.

Believe me, theres nothing I like less than flying Noe for a couple sectors to a base, then having no one up to defend.

Theres one word for that ---BORING.

There are guys out there that actually enjoy that type of play--but I think that most will grow out of it in time. (or not)

I'm neither endorsing or denouncing that type of play , to each their own.

I guess it bothers some people more than others.

Personally, I DO pay attention to the map as much as I can.

I have a really good time defending a base. And if I have to stop what I'm doing to do it, so be it! Or not.

Now if ya wanna start talking bout things that irk ME!! Lets talk P-51s!! LoL !

[1Boner]

OMG! OMG!!!  One of our countries one hundered and two fields just started flashing    Stop the presses!!  Stop the presses!!!

Hey If you don't care about it, then don't bother.

But then, don't complain about it either.

[Gabriel]

Just change the nonsense NOE stuff.

would stop these 20m off the deck basepwns.  They might be forced to use heavy bombers and fighters,,,,at altitude to attack a target. teh horror 

[killnu]

You are a better man than I lute.  I would not have typed all that knowing that it will fall on deaf ears. 

[viper215]

...the "great" landgrab warriors!
Rolling undefended fields like Thunder across the valley.
The true elite Raptors of the Aces High skies.


The il2 just doesn't have enough ammo...

(Image removed from quote.)

Your statement is wrong...this field is not "undefended" the il2 is upping thus providing some defence.

[WMLute]

In all honesty 1Boner I only "sort of" know you and your playing style, and my comment was a tad unfair towards you.

You are right that I can't read your mind or judge your intentions.

I can only go by what I have seen and again in all fairness I can not say that I know what your actions/intentions are every time you up and fly.  We very well could be more alike than different and probably are.

So yes a lot of what I am posting here are sweeping generalizations that probably are not 100% accurate.  But there is a lot of truth to them.

I have had many members of these NOE hoard bases squads come to me asking for tips, advice and training so my blanket statements do not cover all of the members of these squads.

What I AM trying to point out is an attitude that has become prevalent in the arenas for the past few years.

You have to admit a LOT of this playing style was started with the BOPs years ago before the arena split.

They were the in the forefront of the huge hoard vs. the undefended base style that has become almost the norm now in the MA.  Attacking a field that is undefended and moving on when they encountered resistance was the BOP's "reputation".  That is not a flame, that is merely the truth of it.

I am neither crying nor whining about it. 

I will say I AM saddened by it.

(killnu)
I do hope that some player might read what I post and a light bulb goes off in their heads and they think "hmmm... he might have a point.  I WOULD like to be able to kill more than I die and I would like to learn how to fight".  That is the first step down a long road with a steep learning curve but the end game is more than worth it.  If just one player starts down that path because of my many wall o' texts it was worth the cramped fingers.

[bmwgs]

The ONLY reason the NOE is so effective is that it takes 10-15min to get a defence setup and if the NOE is done right you only need 5-10 for the capture.  It's not malaze.  You and yours are COUNTING on the nme being occupied elsewhere.  (duh)  Otherwise you would have to fight for the field and we know what the end result will be if that happens.  (at least 99% of the time that is according to you)

I never said a NOE hoard was not effective in capturing a field that is not defended.  I AM posing the question why would one want to do it in the first place?  Sure the occasion NOE base capture has it's purpose, but it should be the exception not the rule.

I would like you to go back and re-read what I had to say about that stlye of gameplay and what it promotes.

You know what will happen if large squads start doing NOE hoard missions after NOE hoard missions toolshedding undefended fields?  We end up with an arena full of skilless noobs pounding their chest about what great base takers they are that die quick if they ever end up in a 1 on 1 fight.

Oh wait...

Never mind that has allready happened.


(and might I add that the group of 8-10 we fought last night and demolished when we had 5-6 was made up of some members of Rolling Thunder.  Wouldn't you rather be the 5-6 winning vs. the 8-10?  You won't ever figure out how to do that doing NOE raids to undefended fields)

You have got to be kidding.  Your bragging about all your skill and knowledge, and yet you state it takes 15 minutes to mount a defense.

Fred