Author Topic: Please reconsider the Ta152 ENY  (Read 3437 times)

Offline grizz441

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7000
Re: Please reconsider the Ta152 ENY
« Reply #45 on: May 25, 2009, 03:52:58 PM »
This whole Eny debacle is the reason I think that plane popularity should play a higher roll in determining its Eny.  The masses will fly the planes that give them the best chances to succeed in the MA environment, which they are actually defining themselves.  There's a reason for a plane's popularity/scarcity in the air.  For example to show I'm not being biased, I'll say I think it is time for the K4's eny(due to its influx in popularity to go along with its obvious performance advantages) to be lowered to 15 or even 10 maybe. 

As for the Ta152 and P47N?  Cmon, look at its stats Htc, both planes should be in the 10 Eny range.

Offline AWwrgwy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5478
Re: Please reconsider the Ta152 ENY
« Reply #46 on: May 25, 2009, 05:19:58 PM »
This whole Eny debacle is the reason I think that plane popularity should play a higher roll in determining its Eny.  The masses will fly the planes that give them the best chances to succeed in the MA environment, which they are actually defining themselves.  There's a reason for a plane's popularity/scarcity in the air.  For example to show I'm not being biased, I'll say I think it is time for the K4's eny(due to its influx in popularity to go along with its obvious performance advantages) to be lowered to 15 or even 10 maybe. 

As for the Ta152 and P47N?  Cmon, look at its stats Htc, both planes should be in the 10 Eny range.

ENY is about arena balance.  The recent influx of 109K4s is not effecting the arenas in adverse ways.  More people are flying them but more people are not really getting killed in them.  they are still not an "uber" ride that is easy for the average player to blow through and kill someone in.

I think popularity has more to do with what is fun for someone to fly.  What would be the point of making "popular" planes less available as numbers change, killing people's fun?

Perhaps ENY isn't just a tool of success with a plane but also a tool of the outcome, i.e.: perk points earned.  Fly a high ENY plane and earn fewer points.  If a P-47N is easier to get a successful sortie with and land than a P-47D, be it air-to-air or air-to-ground, perhaps the ENY is an attempt to balance the aftermath.

Want more points, fly a D instead of an N?

I still don't know.


wrongway
71 (Eagle) Squadron
"THAT"S PAINT!!"

"If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through."
- General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay

Offline Motherland

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8110
Re: Please reconsider the Ta152 ENY
« Reply #47 on: May 25, 2009, 05:22:19 PM »
I think that both the Bf 109K and the Ta 152H should be 10 eny.

Offline BnZs

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4207
Re: Please reconsider the Ta152 ENY
« Reply #48 on: May 25, 2009, 05:25:22 PM »
This whole Eny debacle is the reason I think that plane popularity should play a higher roll in determining its Eny.  The masses will fly the planes that give them the best chances to succeed in the MA environment, which they are actually defining themselves.  There's a reason for a plane's popularity/scarcity in the air.  For example to show I'm not being biased, I'll say I think it is time for the K4's eny(due to its influx in popularity to go along with its obvious performance advantages) to be lowered to 15 or even 10 maybe. 

As for the Ta152 and P47N?  Cmon, look at its stats Htc, both planes should be in the 10 Eny range.

You are absolutely right about the 109 K-4 deserving a lower ENY on account of performance, to say nothing of the 152 and N-Jug.

However, popularity has absolutely nothing to do with how much or how little the player gets to work with when he rolls the aircraft, so why make it an issue?

On top of that, it looks like in 2008 the K-4 was not even the most popular German plane...hard to tell all the different shades of that chart apart though. :huh Certainly the 190 family was used for a lot more kills than the 109 family.

So go on and admit the reason it needs its ENY lowered is because it possesses an extremely beneficial combination of top speed, power loading, and lift loading relative other planes...albeit it also has possession of a few special "quirks". :devil





"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16333
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
Re: Please reconsider the Ta152 ENY
« Reply #49 on: May 25, 2009, 05:28:56 PM »
ENY is about arena balance.  The recent influx of 109K4s is not effecting the arenas in adverse ways.  More people are flying them but more people are not really getting killed in them.  they are still not an "uber" ride that is easy for the average player to blow through and kill someone in.

I think popularity has more to do with what is fun for someone to fly.  What would be the point of making "popular" planes less available as numbers change, killing people's fun?

Perhaps ENY isn't just a tool of success with a plane but also a tool of the outcome, i.e.: perk points earned.  Fly a high ENY plane and earn fewer points.  If a P-47N is easier to get a successful sortie with and land than a P-47D, be it air-to-air or air-to-ground, perhaps the ENY is an attempt to balance the aftermath.

Want more points, fly a D instead of an N?

I still don't know.


wrongway
No, ENY is about arena balance, and therefore the stronger planes ought to be lower on the ENY scale.  The K4:152 ENYs don't match their relative performance, nor their performance in a furball.  What you're describing is the criteria for perking.  It's not the same thing.  You got it closer to right in the second part of the post.
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline BnZs

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4207
Re: Please reconsider the Ta152 ENY
« Reply #50 on: May 25, 2009, 05:36:57 PM »
All things being equal, killing an La7 or SpitXVI with a Ta-152 or P-47N is a more of a job of work than doing the opposite.

The ENY value/perk reward does not reflect that.

Going by the ENY numbers, we would have to assume the 109 K is at tremendous disadvantage against the 152 or 47N....
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23888
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: Please reconsider the Ta152 ENY
« Reply #51 on: May 25, 2009, 05:44:56 PM »
On top of that, it looks like in 2008 the K-4 was not even the most popular German plane...hard to tell all the different shades of that chart apart though. :huh Certainly the 190 family was used for a lot more kills than the 109 family.

You have called?



:)
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline BnZs

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4207
Re: Please reconsider the Ta152 ENY
« Reply #52 on: May 25, 2009, 06:13:33 PM »
Thank you Lusche...

Whoa!!! The 110G-2  _and_ 190 A8 were more used than the D9 *and* K-4?



That about wraps it up for "usage" as a useful measure of anything I'd say. :D



You have called?

(Image removed from quote.)

:)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 06:16:29 PM by BnZs »
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline bj229r

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6732
Re: Please reconsider the Ta152 ENY
« Reply #53 on: May 25, 2009, 06:27:29 PM »
Thank you Lusche...

Whoa!!! The 110G-2  _and_ 190 A8 were more used than the D9 *and* K-4?



That about wraps it up for "usage" as a useful measure of anything I'd say. :D



I bet 110 has 50% gv kills
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers

http://www.flamewarriors.net/forum/

Offline Motherland

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8110
Re: Please reconsider the Ta152 ENY
« Reply #54 on: May 25, 2009, 06:28:08 PM »
I'd bet closer to 75%.

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23888
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: Please reconsider the Ta152 ENY
« Reply #55 on: May 25, 2009, 06:28:51 PM »
Well.. the 110 is THE plane of choice for all landgrab / noe missions. Of course, most of it's K+D is actually just D ;)
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline Motherland

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8110
Re: Please reconsider the Ta152 ENY
« Reply #56 on: May 25, 2009, 06:31:10 PM »
lol... 6600+ kills to 10300+ deaths this tour.
Has a decent amount of A2A kills in comparison to GV kills though.

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16333
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
Re: Please reconsider the Ta152 ENY
« Reply #57 on: May 25, 2009, 06:31:24 PM »

Dang.. you guys beat me to it.
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline Motherland

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8110
Re: Please reconsider the Ta152 ENY
« Reply #58 on: May 25, 2009, 06:33:50 PM »
 :rofl :rofl
Not getting the horse and buggy for the 110G though.

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23888
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: Please reconsider the Ta152 ENY
« Reply #59 on: May 25, 2009, 06:33:57 PM »
I bet 110 has 50% gv kills

I'd bet closer to 75%.

Actually it was much less.

In 2008, only about 5% of all Panzer (the MA GV #1) kills by planes were made by 110's.


#1 - Il2 with 16%
#2 - A20 with 11%
#3 - B25H with 8%
#4 - F6F with 6%

EDIT: OOOPS.. I think I just have misinterpreted your post  :o

You meant "50% of all 110G kills are GV" - but thats usually not the case either. Most tours the GV/boat kills amount to about 30-35% of all 110G kills.


« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 06:41:38 PM by Lusche »
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman