Wing Option for squad's

[Roscoroo]

Maybe you could name some members of this DFC...my guys are out in the open for anyone to see. Then i might be able to see who the "competition" really is.

I would If I could ... but since Falconwing says we don't exist ... I can't 

(I would never Hijack the SEA arena and hold a Furball fest ) ...

[1Boner]

So everyone should just suck, we should be happy to wallow in mediocrity?

No, not at all, but if someone chooses to treat this game as a "game" and not take it as seriously as some others might, they shouldn't be chastised and/or called derogatory names.(skilless etc.)

And if someone is not happy wallowing in mediocrity, then there are avenues to take(if you choose) to improve your game and your self worth in the game.

Ones level of immersion in this game should not be looked down upon by those who choose to perfect the finer points of their game.

I think that people who are constantly cutting down and name calling other players (both in game and on BBs) are FAR more detrimental to this game than a 500 person squad would ever be.

I would rather be in an arena with nothing but milkers,Hoers and newbies asking the same questions over and over than be in an arena with a bunch of pompous,condesending punks that add nothing to the game except their incessant whining about how the game should be played.

[moot]

You're downplaying it. 500 player "squads" would be beyond problematic. For one thing, there would be nowhere near as much competition.  AH thrives on this. It would be just one big slum, one big uncorelated soup of blandness.

"I would rather be in an arena with nothing but milkers,Hoers and newbies asking the same questions over and over than be in an arena with a bunch of pompous,condesending punks that add nothing to the game except their incessant whining about how the game should be played."

False dichotomy. A red herring for this debate. There's nothing condescending in pointing out that someone is not being a good chess mate when he shakes the table with the chessboard on it or keeps asking for rewinds on the moves anytime the game doesn't play out his way.  Which is what avoiding air combat is.  Aces High DEPENDS on air combat.  Otherwise it's "Air Tourism" or just "Bomb droppers High". You can't call a vacuum "dense" anymore than you can pretend someone who avoids the whole point of a game is providing quality gameplay.

Whether (by your account anyway) furballers are potty mouths or not has nothing to do with quality of air combat, the pillar of gameplay in AH. You're trying to pass two separate things as the same. You're fudging for an excuse to put "social" pleasures over what the game's about.  The game is about air combat with friends.  Those two things together, not just either one on its own.  You might not have the passion for history and the planes themselves, or warfare, or anything other than just having a pass-time, any pass-time, to share with friends, but that doesn't mean the pass-time should be diluted for everyone else.
If "social" means more to you than air combat and blowing poop up with a couple of close friends competing with you for who has the most fun, go play second life or something. Or go out.  Aces High is about air combat.  Of course, you knew that, but you're not above spinning arguments for your agenda, as petty as it might be. Whether air combat is diluted to ppm's or 100-proof makes no difference to you. So why ruin it for everyone else who does have a stake with it?

No, not at all, but if someone chooses to treat this game as a "game" and not take it as seriously as some others might, they shouldn't be chastised and/or called derogatory names.(skilless etc.)

And you don't need to take this game seriously to prefer quality gameplay or get a kick out of the discipline in playing for score (without even "gaming" the game/score system). I certainly don't.  But I am a sucker for quality over mere quantity.  In fact I usualy refuse either when I can have both.. Which is what having 15 32-player squads rather than 1 500 player squad would be.

If we're taking mere opinion for standard (e.g. that 500 player squads are no problem), then I have to say that your 100 man squads are not the type of friendship AH squads are meant to be, and bogus at worst.  There's no way you're really true friends with every single one of those other 99 players. There's no way having 100 player limits on squads, instead of 32 or 16, is better for the game.

[Bronk]

I would rather be in an arena with nothing but milkers,Hoers and newbies asking the same questions over and over than be in an arena with a bunch of pompous,condesending punks that add nothing to the game except their incessant whining about how the game should be played.

EW awaits your arrival. 

[VonMessa]

16 sounds good.

What the hell am I going to do with all this beer, then?








Oh wait, I think I've figured it out.............

[Bronk]

What the hell am I going to do with all this beer, then?


(Image removed from quote.)


(Image removed from quote.)


Oh wait, I think I've figured it out.............

Would you like my address..I'll pay shipping.

[VonMessa]

Just come pick it up. 

Philly is not that far.     

[1Boner]

You're downplaying it. 500 player "squads" would be beyond problematic. For one thing, there would be nowhere near as much competition.  AH thrives on this. It would be just one big slum, one big uncorelated soup of blandness.False dichotomy. A red herring for this debate. There's nothing condescending in pointing out that someone is not being a good chess mate when he shakes the table with the chessboard on it or keeps asking for rewinds on the moves anytime the game doesn't play out his way.  Which is what avoiding air combat is.  Aces High DEPENDS on air combat.  Otherwise it's "Air Tourism" or just "Bomb droppers High". You can't call a vacuum "dense" anymore than you can pretend someone who avoids the whole point of a game is providing quality gameplay.

Whether (by your account anyway) furballers are potty mouths or not has nothing to do with quality of air combat, the pillar of gameplay in AH. You're trying to pass two separate things as the same. You're fudging for an excuse to put "social" pleasures over what the game's about.  The game is about air combat with friends.  Those two things together, not just either one on its own.  You might not have the passion for history and the planes themselves, or warfare, or anything other than just having a pass-time, any pass-time, to share with friends, but that doesn't mean the pass-time should be diluted for everyone else.
If "social" means more to you than air combat and blowing poop up with a couple of close friends competing with you for who has the most fun, go play second life or something. Or go out.  Aces High is about air combat.  Of course, you knew that, but you're not above spinning arguments for your agenda, as petty as it might be. Whether air combat is diluted to ppm's or 100-proof makes no difference to you. So why ruin it for everyone else who does have a stake with it?
And you don't need to take this game seriously to prefer quality gameplay or get a kick out of the discipline in playing for score (without even "gaming" the game/score system). I certainly don't.  But I am a sucker for quality over mere quantity.  In fact I usualy refuse either when I can have both.. Which is what having 15 32-player squads rather than 1 500 player squad would be.

If we're taking mere opinion for standard (e.g. that 500 player squads are no problem), then I have to say that your 100 man squads are not the type of friendship AH squads are meant to be, and bogus at worst.  There's no way you're really true friends with every single one of those other 99 players. There's no way having 100 player limits on squads, instead of 32 or 16, is better for the game.

1st off, you have to know I was exagerating the 500 member squad thing. Right?

Secondly, if I was playing chess in a room filled with 3 or 4 hundered other chess players and my opponent was not being a "good chess mate", I would look elsewhere in the room for another player.

Its a big room , find a spot to have fun and leave the "bad players" to have fun with like minded players.

With the size of most of the maps in here, I find it hard to believe that guys can't find a fight.

And squad size?  My squad night is on Mondays, try counting the amount of players we field.

I can't remember EVER having a full 32 guys on. And if that was ever to happen, it would most likely be on a squad night,for one day of the week.

If you don't like large groups of people flying around together, take 2 or 3 of your "skilled" buddies and shoot the 32+ "skilless tards" down.

Theres your fight, whats the problem?  I would think guys of your ilk would encourage it. More skilless targets.

I got into this game because I really love WW2 warbirds. But this game is more than that, there are GVs, PT boats, bombers, troops to capture bases etc. Even though I play this game for the planes, I realize that other people have a different "take" on the game than I do.

So be it.

Its a big room.

[1Boner]

EW awaits your arrival. 

Lmao!

It doesn't have to "await" me.

I have arrived!

I spent alot of time there last tour, and actually had alot of fun busting up "missions" and surprizing milkers.

And despite the amount of that type of play in there, I found most of the guys were pretty nice guys and we all had alot of fun.

The same can be said for the Mw arena. Only slightly less of the "dreaded" milkers etc.

Its all fun. If you let it be fun.

[mtnman]

I would think guys of your ilk would encourage it. More skilless targets.

That's exactly what we/they don't want. 

[moot]

Yes, Boner, you were exagerating. Part of the point is that there's a sweet spot to squad sizes. 1 isn't it, 500 isn't it either, and IMO 16 is a little short, and more than 32 is probably too much.

Going to look for another player hints at not everyone being a good match.  Of course, a better match is better than a mere good match, so it's no wonder that you'd go for the best few matches instead of picking randomly out of a pool of 100 merely good matches. "100" is just a number for the sake of the argument, in this previous sentence.

Finding a fight isn't hard?  Sorry, but you already argued that the quality of the fight didn't matter to you. You said that skills mean nothing.  So any fight is good for you, and so who are you to say which fights are good and which are bad? Seriously - Yes, it's more hard than easy to find a good fight nowadays. Random reason out of the many reasons for this? Ok: ganging. It doesn't take much for a good fight to be spoiled... 2:1 is fine.. Most players can manage to have fun (regardless of who kills who) in those, but 3:1 already cuts out the vast majority of players, as far as having fun is concerned.  And if you hadn't noticed.. that's what the game is more than half the time.  Why? Because of the perpetuated rumor that "skills" and "gameplay quality" don't matter.  This mindset makes this the norm:


There was nothing else on the map that time and for a couple of hours on, and at least half the other times I and others log on.
And the DA? Even worse:

It's not just that this is happening at least half the time I or others like me (we're at least as many as the average "megasquad") that some of us are losing interest despite as much friendship as you justify your own squads with, and despite a passion and/or addiction to the whole WWII/pilot/warbird/dogfighting thing, even after (often enough) about a decade of this.. It's also that there's no good excuse for this. There's no excuse for letting gameplay suck so bad merely because it's just a game.  There's no excuse for botching a game of chess by screwing with the rules till the game takes zero reflection or effort, or doing this with anything.  

I don't care about your squad. Not a rat's arse.. I care about the game in general. I see it going downhill. Shows up this thread and the argument that oversized squads are no biggie, which is wrong and which I point out as such. I'm not stopping you (nor even am interested in meddling in your business) from having 5 wing squads where you don't even know the other players by merely pointing it out.

I can't remember EVER having a full 32 guys on. And if that was ever to happen, it would most likely be on a squad night,for one day of the week.

.. Or pointing out there's no sense in calling yourself a squad or asking for larger squad limits if you don't even use them!

I can't remember EVER having a full 32 guys on. And if that was ever to happen, it would most likely be on a squad night,for one day of the week.
If you don't like large groups of people flying around together, take 2 or 3 of your "skilled" buddies and shoot the 32+ "skilless tards" down.
Theres your fight, whats the problem?  I would think guys of your ilk would encourage it. More skilless targets.

Ha! You don't know how accurate that is! Grats on getting this right by merely guessing thru the mud in your eyes that is the smug attitude... "me and my ilk"  .. LOL

Skilless targets are no fun. This game is less well because of the path of least resistance being "skillless".. Are you really pretending that there's something wrong with trying to make others better players?  Or that "skill" isn't some buzz word to make a strawman out of the simple fact that playing better makes games more enjoyable? There's nothing elitist about playing well or tardly about not being very good at a game.  There is something wrong with opposing improvements in players' ability or encouraging players to stay crappy when they could be good.

[1Boner]

Wow!

Is that really All you have to say on the subject?

You either don't read very well , or just like twisting things in your favor.

More likely, we are both guilty in that respect.

So, I will leave you with this thought. What if the multi-wing squads were forced to disband?

What is to stop this now nameless group of skilless vagabonds from flying together anyway?

And while I have seen obscenely large missions like the ones you have pictured above, I think they are the exception, not the norm.

And BTW, which multi-wing squad was that in those screenies?

And if squads were limited to say 16 people, whos to say that mega hordes won't occasionally form as they do now?

[macleod01]

Ok my turn. I, Like Serenity, am a member of 71 squadron, named on this Thread as a massive squad full of 'Non skilled' people. I would like to issue the same challange as Widewing did. We've done it before, 10v10. I remember I was picked as part of a squad fight against Precission. It was, with no offence ment here, a turkey shoot. 3 times in a row we went 7-0.

If we have a big squad night, yes, we will 'Gang', but you'd better eb prepared to be ganged by a load of SBD's or Hurri 1's or something stupid. 71 is all about having fun, no set rules, but if your not a nice guy, your out. Simple as. Being in a squad like that will naturally increase your skill. If you dont like what 71 stands for and how we go about doing it, theres the door.

To those people who say we have no skill as well. 'If you had any, why need such a large squad', As Serenity said, we are that size for friendship, and also as a more practical reason, half our members are from US, a quarter for UK, and the rest from mad places like Germany, finland, Croatia, etc. Its Impossible to get everyone on at one time. As for skill. Im sure Humble's skill is legendary. He lands 10 kills in a SBD for goodness sake! Then we have our CO, Redtop. Again, an amazing fighter, I would hate to get in his sights. BatfinkV in a mossie is lethal. Countless others have more skill than the majority of people I have met in the MA. I have known 5 members of 71 to attack a heavily defended air base, supress it and capture it. Anyone want to say that that doesn't take skill? And it WASN'T a vultch fest before thats thrown in, we let people up, its more fun if they can fight back.

Anymore questions about 71's reputation?

[moot]

Wow!

Is that really All you have to say on the subject?

You either don't read very well , or just like twisting things in your favor.

More likely, we are both guilty in that respect.

So, I will leave you with this thought. What if the multi-wing squads were forced to disband?

What is to stop this now nameless group of skilless vagabonds from flying together anyway?

And while I have seen obscenely large missions like the ones you have pictured above, I think they are the exception, not the norm.

And BTW, which multi-wing squad was that in those screenies?

And if squads were limited to say 16 people, whos to say that mega hordes won't occasionally form as they do now?

Those weren't missions. Not a multi-wing squad either. That's not the point.
Nothing stops skilless vagabons (what this is supposed to imply is not clear at all) from flying together anyway, and that's not the point.
Merely saying that I don't have a point or am twisting the facts is a cop out. Argue it specificaly. Show inconsistencies. Give examples or supporting evidence for your refutal.
Mega hordes and squad sizes aren't directly linked but they aren't independent of each other either.  You're amalgamating two different things again.

[1Boner]

Those weren't missions. Not a multi-wing squad either. That's not the point. Then what IS the point of the screenies?
Nothing stops skilless vagabons (what this is supposed to imply is not clear at all) from flying together anyway, and that's not the point. Then what is the point? 2 many people flying together?, or 2 many people flying together and having a name for that group of people?
Merely saying that I don't have a point or am twisting the facts is a cop out. Argue it specificaly. Show inconsistencies. Give examples or supporting evidence for your refutal. I have already tried to do that, and taking my limited intellect into account, I'm afraid thats the best you're gonna get outta me.
Mega hordes and squad sizes aren't directly linked but they aren't independent of each other either.Well then please enlighten me on the correlation between the 2.  You're amalgamating two different things again. Look, I only amalgamated ONE thing, and that was a long time ago! I got hairy palms and almost went blind.