Author Topic: too many repeat urbanlegand crap and belittle new players.  (Read 4275 times)

Offline RumbleB

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Re: too many repeat urbanlegand crap and belittle new players.
« Reply #75 on: February 02, 2009, 10:50:39 AM »
Some folks get confused as to someone calling out a HO'er and someone whining about them. I will always point out someone hoing for those looking for a good fight. We don't want to waste our time on someone who can't give us a decent fight after all. I have found that those who ho will call it whining trying to cover their embarrassment I guess. In any case it doesn't hurt to let others know so they wont waste their time on him or her.

That would make sense if you could see who you were going up against....
I look for good fights, someone calling someone a ho'er on 200 isn't going to help me in the slightest.

Offline VonMessa

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Re: too many repeat urbanlegand crap and belittle new players.
« Reply #76 on: February 02, 2009, 11:46:30 AM »
While not to say there is no such thing as a "pick", I will say that the person that got "picked" is usually more responsible than the "picker"

Either the "pickee" doesn't have good SA, is disregarding the fact that there could be another con in the area, or is ignoring the warnings or "check 6's" from friendlies in the area and completely comfortable that he can make the quick kill before being drilled himself (I am fully guilty of this at times,)

Just a few terms:

Drag and Bag

Rope a Dope

Speaking for myself, when I am on with squadmates, we are usually flying in schwarms(finger four) and rottes (wingman pairs) (not sure of the German plurals, so take it easy on me, Lusche   :)   )  The point is driven home to us that teamwork is a very integral part of how we fly.  This is the best part of the immersion (for me) in any arena that this game has to offer.  Leaving as a group, killing as a group, and returning as a group (although I usually screw-up that last part  :D  )

If you are behind me and I am flying straight, grabbing for alt, making some ludicrous maneuver that will obviously not allow me to reverse you, flying lazily or appearing not worried about you killing me, etc, there is a 99% chance that I am setting you up for a squaddie.  There is only one obvious cure for this and it does not require any specialized training, just the development of a single habit.....  when you line up for a shot, LOOK AROUND to see if there is someone doing the same to you before you get fixated..   :aok

Again (speaking for myself, of course) there is really only one thing (with regard to killing a red guy) that is more exhilarating than shooting down a con, and that would be waxing some guy that thinks he is going to kill my wingman.  If I go on a sortie and bag 2 or 200 kills, but my wingman didn't make it home, I have not had a successful sortie, and for all intents and purposes, I have failed.

If a guy flies around and only "picks" than he is probably lame, anyhow.  I can't see how flying exclusively in that fashion could be entertaining to anyone, anyhow  That statement aside, it's not always easy to come in from alt, successfully dispatch the red guy, and subsequently regain your former position without getting yourself into trouble.  This obviously does not apply to buffs, as anything short of a efficient hit and fade on  bombers (i.e. not saddling up on their six) is usually death with the bombers that we have.

With regard to being a chicken, if I am:

At an E, or other, disadvantage.......       I will disengage and try to regain my advantage, especially if I am faster.

Low on fuel, out of ammunition, or damaged to the point where I can no longer fight........       I am going home, and NO I am not going to learn anything else about ACM by sticking around except that the fact that I probably should have left (which I already know)

As far as it being a game?  That is obvious.  Breaking someone's balls because of how they like to immerse themselves in the game (in whatever fashion be it flying with a squad, building a simpit, or wearing a scarf & goggles when they play) only shows that perhaps you haven't found your own enjoyment in the game.  

Yes, it's fantasy, and by that I mean that it is a way to escape reality.  I, personally try to make it as immersive as possible, or at least use it as an outlet to to get away from reality.  If I get too pissed-off, I usually just log.

(For you Alt-F4 guys............  if it gets you your jollies, I use it a lot when I log)     :aok


EDIT:   It is officially Schwärme und Rotten    (Thanks, Lusche)   :salute

« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 11:58:36 AM by VonMessa »
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Offline VonMessa

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Re: too many repeat urbanlegand crap and belittle new players.
« Reply #77 on: February 02, 2009, 11:49:28 AM »
Oh yeah...........


Is it a HO if neither one goes to guns, first pass (or on subsequent passes)  ?

If we pass, nose-to-nose but just wave (or flip each other the bird) is it still a HO, or are we just "communicating" ?
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Offline Murdr

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Re: too many repeat urbanlegand crap and belittle new players.
« Reply #78 on: February 02, 2009, 11:55:27 AM »
agree with krusty and murdr - a (cherry)pick has nothing to do with the guy being engaged

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? :uhoh

Cherry picking is engaging a plane that's already engaged.  It's defined on the trainers site glossery, and on the AHWiki.  Geesh

Offline Wingnutt

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Re: too many repeat urbanlegand crap and belittle new players.
« Reply #79 on: February 02, 2009, 11:56:10 AM »
I think its only a "HO" if its on the INITIAL merge, and both players have a gun solution..  

its NOT a ho, if you try to dive under or over, and start doing so way to early and make your path real obvious and the other guy gets a lead shot on you and rakes your face.

also if your in the middle of the fight and for whatever circumstances end up face to face.. so be it..



And I dont consider a "pick" shooting someone engaged..  there is more to it than that...

I consider someone a picker when they sit 5 K above a furball and just amke long BNZ passes on low E engauged cons..  big difference..

if Your flying in a furball and shoot someone who happens to be shooting at someone else..  oh well...  what are you supposed to do.. circle around in the swirling mass saying "umm nope, that guys buisy,.. umm so is that one.. umm... nope.. etc etc"  pretty absurd.

of course if your hypersensitive and a cry baby and think nobody should mess with you when your trying to kill someone, you have no business being anywhere near a fur ball in the first place., because thats what a furball IS.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 12:01:19 PM by Wingnutt »

Offline Murdr

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Re: too many repeat urbanlegand crap and belittle new players.
« Reply #80 on: February 02, 2009, 12:03:28 PM »
And I dont consider a "pick" shooting someone engaged..  there is more to it than that...

There is nothing more to it than that.

I consider someone a picker when they sit 5 K above a furball and just amke long BNZ passes on low E engauged cons..  big difference..

See?

if Your flying in a furball and shoot someone who happens to be shooting at someone else..  oh well...  what are you supposed to do.. circle around in the swirling mass saying "umm nope, that guys buisy,.. umm so is that one.. umm... nope.. etc etc"  pretty absurd.

You can do what you want, but I'm going to pick them.  Lol.  Just because a word is often used in a negative context, doesn't mean it's a no-no.  More likely the term/tactic has a negative context because people take it to excess.  Yea, the P-51 on his perch who is picking the furball, and that's the extent of his combat tactics is a picker....The first thing I'm going to do when approaching that furball is pick the pickers myself before ending up mixed into the furball.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 12:14:33 PM by Murdr »

Offline Hungry

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Re: too many repeat urbanlegand crap and belittle new players.
« Reply #81 on: February 02, 2009, 12:30:40 PM »
lets get back to how many rivets each plane has, who has the best silk scarf and whether they PICK their nose left or right handed. 

Where's that picture of the guy beating the dead horse when you need it.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 12:32:20 PM by Hungry »
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: too many repeat urbanlegand crap and belittle new players.
« Reply #82 on: February 02, 2009, 12:32:17 PM »
Cherry picking is engaging a plane that's already engaged.  It's defined on the trainers site glossery, and on the AHWiki.  Geesh

By this definition every Il2 I shoot is a pick.

My point is that no matter what your definition there cant be any picking in the game unless everyone knows the definition and is in agreement that 'picking' is a bad thing. I understand about good fights which is why I ask before lending assistance. Just because a con 'thinks' he is engaged with one guy and no one would 'pick' him doesnt mean I wont assist my squaddie if asked.

Now if a guy is thinking that the con is busy and it will be an easy kill when he 'picks' then I agree its just that. Otherwise it doesnt fit the definition and since we arent mind readers using that expression on 200 or in a PM is just an excuse for your death.
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Offline Murdr

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Re: too many repeat urbanlegand crap and belittle new players.
« Reply #83 on: February 02, 2009, 12:39:36 PM »
It doesn't matter what the pilots think.


It's not my definition.  It's been around longer than the 13 years I've been flying online WWII sims.

Are you not reading?  Or just ignoring?   A "pick" is not some terrible transgression by default.  Everyone does it.

Gosh, you guys see a word used in a negative connotation, and assume:  It is universaly "wrong" somehow, and then by extention, it needs redefined base on that errent assumption.  When really the only issue is that whatever "it" is, is a bad thing when taken to excess.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 12:48:28 PM by Murdr »

Offline 33Vortex

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Re: too many repeat urbanlegand crap and belittle new players.
« Reply #84 on: February 02, 2009, 12:39:42 PM »
The whole 'whining' category, whenever it occurs and whatever the reason, of discussion is based on downed and/or dead pilots objecting to the way he was shot down. In my view, since the person in question was shot down he has no say in the matter. Unless there was a hardware or connectivity issue but that is very rare.

So the whole discussion about 'picks' here and there (as if there is some kind of moral high-ground in this game that people fight over, the idea of a holy land comes to mind) is completely irrelevant. If you want results get in there and GET IT DONE, nothing else will suffice and you can discuss ho's and picks until you drop, it still won't matter.

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Offline VonMessa

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Re: too many repeat urbanlegand crap and belittle new players.
« Reply #85 on: February 02, 2009, 12:50:05 PM »
Kill, or be killed?  That is the question.

Sometimes, I wish it was more realistic, though...............

VonMessa calls employer:

Employer:  "Good Morning, can I help you?"

VonMessa:  "Yeah boss, it's me, VonMessa.  Listen, I don't think I'm going to make it into work today."

Employer:  "Is everything O.K. ?"

VonMessa:  "Well, you see, I was shot down in AH2, last night, I had to ditch over enemy territory, and it's a long walk to the the closest friendly base"

Employer:  "Well get here as soon as you can!"

VonMessa:  "Well, that might be a while.  Since I had to ditch, and the plane costs a lot, Stampf said I have to wax all the planes in the staffel to make up for the loss"

Employer:    :O

VonMessa:  "Well, that and I have anal glaucoma"

Employer:   :confused:

VonMessa:  "I can't see my arse coming to work"
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Offline Lusche

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Re: too many repeat urbanlegand crap and belittle new players.
« Reply #86 on: February 02, 2009, 01:00:13 PM »
I do pick  :(









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Offline VonMessa

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Re: too many repeat urbanlegand crap and belittle new players.
« Reply #87 on: February 02, 2009, 01:09:15 PM »
Picker          :noid
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Offline druski85

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Re: too many repeat urbanlegand crap and belittle new players.
« Reply #88 on: February 02, 2009, 01:09:33 PM »
lets get back to how many rivets each plane has, who has the best silk scarf and whether they PICK their nose left or right handed. 

Where's that picture of the guy beating the dead horse when you need it.



That guy?  :)

HOing, picking, all the rest...its part of the game, and nothing you ever say on the forums will change that. Personally, the only HOing that really bothers me is the dora/temp/la7 rinse and repeat type.  This is the phenomenon where LA goes to ho my 109/f4, I dive under on the merge to avoid.  LA extends out as I immelman to drop in on his 6.  LA continues extending out to about 3k, at which point he turns around and continues the same tactic, until finally I need to bait him down into a different fighting style.

I run into guys more often than I'd care to admit that literary do nothing else.  Sure its your game, and by all means fly how you want...but doesn't that get stale?

Offline RTHolmes

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Re: too many repeat urbanlegand crap and belittle new players.
« Reply #89 on: February 02, 2009, 01:11:58 PM »
my apologies Murdr, when you posted:
cherry-pick (c̸her′ē pik′) transitive verb, intransitive verb

Informal to select (only what one considers to be best or most desirable, profitable, etc.) from a number of options

... I naively assumed you agreed with that definition, rather than a different definition, which you didnt either post or link to  :rolleyes:


ok, I'm in a decent BnZer at 12k, and see 6x LA7s level at 320ish, and maneuvering because theyve seen me, and 1x P40 on autoclimb at 160ish, all at 8k. I roll in on the P40's six and blow him out of the sky before he even notices me and return to my perch. I'd call that a pick, you wouldn't.

I suspect the only reason the AH definition adds the "engaged con" bit is because BnZ pilots dont like to be called pickers. Personally if I get picked (my defn) its my SA thats the problem, not the guy who used his advantage.


:uhoh
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