Flying the f4u1a

[Sonicblu]

Can someone help with with a clearer distinction on the use of flaps.

1. Is there a point on the f4u1a where the flaps dont help turn or it becomes not worth it because of the drag?

2. How many notches of flaps do you guys use and in what situations?

[FLOTSOM]

sonic if you see mntmn or skyrock in the ma's ask them to go to the da with you. those are 2 of the top f4u pilots that i can think of. im sure there are others that are good in the f4, but those 2 are the 2 that i know of that will politely and patiently help you out in the da.

good luck

[Murdr]

The sweet spot for turn rate is two notches, but you can still tighten radius all the way down to full flaps.

[Saxman]

Sonic,

A lot is going to depend on the situation. In large, multi-plane engagements I don't want to use any more than one or two notches if I can avoid it, as it bleeds off too much airspeed. The Corsair turns VERY well with flaps, however except for the F4U-4 she has very poor acceleration so once you give up airspeed you're not going to have an easy time getting it back, and a slow Corsair is very vulnerable.

The turn radius is VERY small with full flaps, however the Corsair has a relatively low turn rate in this condition, so if you don't close the deal quick some opponents (especially Spitfires) will eventually get around on you despite your tighter radius. This largely depends on the cornering ability of your opponent.

I prefer keeping her fast, using one or two notches of flaps at the tops of loops and vertical extensions. The Corsair's E retention, top speed, and high-speed maneuverability puts her at the top of the pack in a fast engagement, so use this to advantage. Rudder especially is among the most effective of any other ship above 300mph, and there's only a handful of planes that out-roll her at high speed.

Also, an important consideration in the 1A specifically is fuel. She has an additional fuel tank in each wing over the 1D/C and 4. My usual practice is to take 75% fuel, burn off the left wing entirely, then switch over to main, leaving ~25% in the right wing. This helps balance the plane against engine torque and also give you a nice safety net in case your main tank gets punctured. You should never need a drop tank in the 1A, which is good, because the pylon costs you ~5mph even after the tank is dropped.

[GooseAW]

clearly put gents!

One additional note I try to remember in any of the Hogs based on Saxman's statement about it's poor acceleration is : Keep enough alt that you can dive away if needed as they dive very well. Now if I could just make myself do what I say 

[mtnman]

Well, those guys pretty much sum it up. 

I use flaps pretty freely, but absolutely try to put them back up as soon as possible, and avoid getting myself in a position where I can't get some speed back.  I really prefer to operate in the 175-275 range.  I use them freely, but briefly.

The F4U will stay stable slow with full flaps, but gets to a point where you're far from effective.  At that point I consider that I've really screwed up, and I'm left hoping the other guy screws up worse.  For me the warning bells start going off any time I need to leave 3 (or more) notches down.  I may not be dead or in big trouble at that point, but I will be soon if I don't make some quick adjustments.

I may go so far as to quickly drop 4-5 notches, but that genmerally leaves me in a do-or-die situation.  For me to do that I'd better have a quick shot opportunity, and I'd better hit it. 

My main use of flaps is to aid in nose-high reversals.  I'll pull up at an angle, and drop a notch or two as I pull through the turn.  As soon as I'm nose-low again I'll start bringing them back up.  I may do that 20 times in a fight.  My other big flap-usage time is in some version of a rolling scissors.  I'll fly in lag pursuit, and drop flaps as needed to solidify that my opponent is pulling out in front, and then try to raise them so I have enough speed to catch/kill him as he pulls up, or stay with him if he dives out.

A big "hint" for me is the wing-wobble stall.  Any time I get that I think "Oops, shoulda dropped another notch right before that happened".  The other big hint is when they blow back up.  I'm thinking "Oops, shoulda raised 'em...  Killing my E by having flaps down as I accelerate..."  Flaps for me are about a brief stability gain, or a brief aid in turning.  Not about being able to fly slow.  If I'm getting to the point where I'm getting slow and need another notch to stay stable, and then another, and then another-  I'm in really big trouble.

If I'm getting to the point of being in the 200mph range, without the ability to finish the fight immediately, I'll generally break off at an opportune time (me nose-down, him nose-up, even if I'm low) dive and level to get back to around 225-250, and then turn back into him, or turn so he approaches me from the side so I can manipulate that into an overshoot.  I really feel hamstrung if I'm loitering around the 140 mark.  I need 130 to really do what I want to do, and 140 is close to dead for me.

My mentality in a fight is to try to get the other guy in front of me, rather than to try to get behind him.  That's a pretty vague distinction, but it's how my mind works.  To that end, the more he fears that I'll run away the better.  So I'll present my tail in an effort to get him to go as fast as possible, and then give him my side-view, so he'll close rapidly while I can still maintain my speed.  It's a way for me to get the overshoot but not be slow, so I can stay with him as he goes by.  My mentality is that I want him fast enough to go past me, but I want to be fast enough to keep up when he does.  I DO NOT want to slow down so he'll overshoot, I want him to speed up...

I'm also generally going to avoid being directly under anyone.  I always try to maximize horizontal seperation, and minimize vertical.  When the bad guy dives in I'll turn back under him, hoping to maximize his speed in the dive and screw up his shot.

Pretty vague I guess, hope it helps anyway.  Give me a holler sometime, we can go play in the TA.

[splitatom]

i only use flaps if i am runing into a mess of spits and zeeks or are landing

[Bronk]

Snip

Good write up. One question do you use CT or no.... do you toggle it off and on?

[Sonicblu]

Thanks for the help guys.

I will work on it, I seem to be getting all the flaps out and found that I can turn inside most spits however if they hit wep and climb out just alittle  im at a hugh disadvatage.

I will work on keeping my energy up= fly the fight at a higher speed

[Saxman]

Good write up. One question do you use CT or no.... do you toggle it off and on?

I tend to turn it on and off in combat, especially to stabilize or center my trim when I'm taking a shot.

[Bronk]

I tend to turn it on and off in combat, especially to stabilize or center my trim when I'm taking a shot.

I was wondering because it feels like the ct fights the flaps more in the hogs than in a 38.

[Saxman]

I've never really noticed this. I find the F4U has a very strong tendency to pitch up on deployment of even one notch of flaps regardless of what the CT is doing, to the point that you REALLY need to time the flaps properly otherwise you can overshoot the turn and come around TOO much if you drop them too early.

[Bronk]

I've never really noticed this. I find the F4U has a very strong tendency to pitch up on deployment of even one notch of flaps regardless of what the CT is doing, to the point that you REALLY need to time the flaps properly otherwise you can overshoot the turn and come around TOO much if you drop them too early.

Turn off ct and try it. It really goes skyward.

[Patches1]

I use CT to quickly trim out if my thumb is not quick enough to do so...otherwise I use manual trim...and it depends upon the situation; mostly, I use both in conjunction with each other depending upon the situation and use one to override the other.

I have found that, at times, CT will be a detriment and negate my previous manual trim inputs and
cause the nose to pitch up when flaps have been deployed and trimmed manually.

As an example...manually trim a Corsair for landing with full flaps...and then, whilst in a good glide path, hit CT...then you will understand.

CT is not a "magic" trim...learn to use manual trim first; then learn when to use CT and override with manual trim; then learn to use CT in conjunction with manual trim and flaps at all speeds. Once you have done this you will begin to understand how to fly the F4U1A...and how the "Uber Flaps" work.

[TequilaChaser]

I never really used CT or manual trim on a constant basis when engaged

I have always suggested others to trim any F4U series out in level flight at a cruise speed of 300 to 325 IAS and leave Combat Trim turned off

almost every individual who has learned to fly in this manner when flying the F4U has excelled in their abilities to make the f4U ( and actually a lot of other plane models ) in performing maximum maneuverability.......

if one was to look back and think about how one flew in WWII, a pilot was not sitting there constantly manipulating his Trim Tabs

and yes CT ( Combat Trim ), does work against you when getting slow and using flaps....... YMMV