Author Topic: Aircraft crash in WNY  (Read 3898 times)

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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Re: Aircraft crash in WNY
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2009, 09:37:30 AM »
Plane has known issue with landing gear strut failures, crash occurred right over the marker just after handoff. Seems a bit early to drop the gear  ...

Which marker? Outer Middle Inner? If she was coming for landing, don't you drop the gear at the outer marker, usually close to the glide slope intersection? I don't think any ldg extention malfunction would bring a Q400 down. Now snow/ice and fog  combine with something else :frown: ...
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Offline humble

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Re: Aircraft crash in WNY
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2009, 10:29:12 AM »
I'm guessing right over the outer marker, plane had just been handed off to tower for final. I dont have a clue either how a landing gear problem would bring it down. I just am speculating due to timing...something had to get it far out of whack for that type of crash.

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Offline bcadoo

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Re: Aircraft crash in WNY
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2009, 10:55:43 AM »
Landing gear is in the nacelle with the engine, so a catastrophic failure would possibly take out engine/wing junction.  Whatever happened happened quickly.  Sounds like the captain was flying the approach and the first officer was handling the comms.
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Aircraft crash in WNY
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2009, 11:07:18 AM »
SAS sent back all their Dash'es after repeated landing gear failures. Maybe the gear droped off and killed the hydraulics with it.
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Offline druski85

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Re: Aircraft crash in WNY
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2009, 11:09:35 AM »
I've been reading about this all morning, since I grew up an hour from the crash and have a friend 10 minutes away.  Two different witnesses heard a similar "chainsaw into wood" type noise before the explosion.  I can't think of anything but engine trouble (esp on a turbo-prop) that would cause this type of sputtering noise.  

Surely is a tragedy.  Now of course all the news agencies are covering all of the commercial crashes in the past decade...and I'm flying in 9 hours.    :noid

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Aircraft crash in WNY
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2009, 11:44:11 AM »
I've been reading about this all morning, since I grew up an hour from the crash and have a friend 10 minutes away.  Two different witnesses heard a similar "chainsaw into wood" type noise before the explosion.  I can't think of anything but engine trouble (esp on a turbo-prop) that would cause this type of sputtering noise.  

Surely is a tragedy.  Now of course all the news agencies are covering all of the commercial crashes in the past decade...and I'm flying in 9 hours.    :noid

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Offline druski85

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Re: Aircraft crash in WNY
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2009, 12:42:54 PM »
Statistically speaking now is the safest time to fly, odds are against crashing again soon.

Well statistically odds of crashing are the same as they always are...which are indeed minuscule. 

Offline BlueJ1

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Re: Aircraft crash in WNY
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2009, 01:12:39 PM »
I'll be flying out of Buffalo on monday on the same type of aircraft heading back to Afghanistan. For how screwed up our county is their is a high praise for the actions taken by our leaders here and the fire department and police for dealing so well with a situation none of us expected.
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Offline Fulmar

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Re: Aircraft crash in WNY
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2009, 01:23:40 PM »
My brother flew for Air Wisconsin flying Dash 8's until they upgraded for the CRJ 200's.  He really enjoyed flying them from what I recall.  Now he flies for South West.
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Offline Dinan

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Re: Aircraft crash in WNY
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2009, 01:24:54 PM »
Plane has known issue with landing gear strut failures, crash occurred right over the marker just after handoff. Seems a bit early to drop the gear but witness in article said that was common over his house. Delta MD88 was on approach and reporting light ice down to 3500. listening to ATC tape didn't sound like any stress in the cockpit. I'm wondering if the gear went on deployment...

The plane was less than a year old. Certified 4/08.  Built well after the landing gear issues that occurred in September of 07.

The problems in 07 weren't from the gear "falling off" during extension.  The incidents were uneventful no nose wheel landings due to the nose gear not extending due to O-ring blockage that prevented the landing gear actuator from fully extending.



« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 01:27:34 PM by Dinan »

Offline humble

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Re: Aircraft crash in WNY
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2009, 02:00:29 PM »
Multiple SAS flights experienced collapse of the main gear on landing. An Austrian based (not sure which airline) experienced a wheel detaching on deployment prior to touchdown.


An AP report from Sweden says that Scandinavian Airlines has decided to permanently stop flying Bombardier Q400 turboprops after a string of crash landings blamed on landing gear malfunctions, the airline's chief executive said Sunday.

The company took the decision the day after an SAS turboprop made by the Canadian company crash-landed with 44 people on board in Denmark when part of its landing gear collapsed.

The accident followed two similar crash landings last month with the same type of plane, also known as the Dash 8-400, after which SAS temporarily grounded its fleet of turboprops. No one was seriously injured in any of the accidents....


The plane slid down the runway on its belly after the landing gear collapsed, with one wing scraping the ground in a shower of sparks. All passengers and crew were evacuated safely.

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Soerensen´s declaration was made as a result of the recent incident involving a Dash 8 / 400 belonging to the Austrian Airlines Group carrier Tyrolean Airways, in which a wheel detached from the starboard side of the aircraft´s dual undercarriage at Frankfurt Airport.


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Offline humble

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Re: Aircraft crash in WNY
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2009, 02:04:26 PM »
This one is interesting...


This time, it involves prop overspeed on descent and approach; the Swedish air accident investigation branch (SHK) found that in a number of occasions in which this occurred (4 times in one acft!), on none of these occasions was the checklist correctly followed. The report criticised SK and Bombardier training, saying that the checklist itself was difficult to follow.

In one particularly serious incident, the aircraft was approaching Kalmar and became seriously destabilised, to the extent that the ATC officer alerted fire crews; a safe landing was made, but the approach was heavily criticised by the SHK.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/11/08/219260/inquiry-into-destabilised-sas-q400-approach-finds-checklists-not-followed.html

While the Q400 managed to land, with no injuries to its 73 occupants, SHK says “at no stage” did the aircraft meet the requirements for a stabilised approach.
“[We] cannot judge how close the aircraft was to a crash in respect to height, speed and controllability, but can conclude that both pilots on separate occasions during the approach were convinced that they would not reach the runway,” it says, highlighting the “balanced” crew resource management which ultimately kept the Q400 under control.
SHK says the overspeed checklist procedure was “not completely clear”, notably regarding the crucial issue of retarding the throttles.
“There is no information in the checklist to say that a power lever should not be placed at flight-idle,” says SHK. “Nor was the company informed of the potentially dangerous situation that can arise by having an engine power-lever in flight-idle if the propeller is not feathered.”


Sounds remarkably similar to the accounts of the planes engines over speeding....

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Offline humble

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Re: Aircraft crash in WNY
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2009, 02:57:39 PM »
Here's another tidbit...


See the story about Q-400 gear problems. Posted in the spring 2007 by a pilot with 3000 hrs on the Q400 for Scandinavian Airlines.

We have had an endless number of problems with the gear; I myself have had two occasions of the gear cycling itself multiple times, with the handle in the up and lock positions - Aparently caused by proximity sensors, as has been the case for many of my colleagues.
Looks kind of exiting with all the red, green and amber lights coming and going all the time, not to mention the actual feeling of doors and gear moving.
Fortunately, in my case, it never happend at 280 KIAS....I doubt the doors would remain attached.
In one case there was a problem with the actual uphook, very nearly causing one maingear to not extend....Crew extended it after trying alternate extension for about one hour and on a hot phoneline to Bombardier.
A few cases of trouble in the company too with nosegear extension - Don't remember the cause.
We still hear of problems on a regular basis with the prox sensors.

There has been, and contiue to be, problems with just about any system on this A/C....More interesting, we have had more than a few prop overspeeds in the last year - This results in shutting the engine down (in the case where you are able to regain some control with the propspeed) which is obviously not always a desirable thing to do in the Scandinavian winthers !

Very, very interesting aircraft indeed, and we are way beyond the "infant illness" period ....

This from PPRuNe...

Amazed at the number of ATC pilots who refuse to fly the Dash 8...

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Offline ROX

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Re: Aircraft crash in WNY
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2009, 03:13:22 PM »
Thoughts & prayers for the family and friends of those lost.   




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Offline humble

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Re: Aircraft crash in WNY
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2009, 04:19:18 PM »
initial NTSB reports significant conversation specific to icing, gear and flaps (15) selected and plane goes unstable. Gear flaps retracted but recovery unsuccessful. Somehow this is much unsettling to me, plane has excellent deicing capabilities and indicators.

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson