Not seeing the forest for the trees

[Getback]

Quote from: MachNix on Yesterday at 11:15:18 PM
So what you are saying, Murdr, is HiTech allows his staff to belittle “bubble communities” and individuals.  I can somewhat believe that.

You're saying that, not I.  You claimed a "contempt for the community" which is utter BS.  The rest as I said was to illustrate a point on your definition of "the community".

Quote from: MachNix on Yesterday at 11:15:18 PM
I don’t see you making any impact in the arenas – maybe our playtimes don’t over lap.
Well, let's take a look.  Career stats excluding "gun ship or field"...

MachNix
6202 kills
3004 deaths
2.06 gross k/d

Nice  salute

Murdr
26276 kills
8183 deaths
3.21 gross k/d



So as not to hijack another thread I copied the above from the wishlist forum. First of all, great great stats. I deleted some of the paragraphs that had to do with training, map making, research and behind the scenes contributions that make the game great for us all. These are greatly appreciated as well.

Allow me to point out something here. I see many rooks landing multiple kills continuously. Meanwhile while they are landing all these kills Rooks are losing bases left and right. So while everyone is getting high 5s they are losing the war. Basically they are not seeing the forest for the trees. They don't take down troops at even isolated vbases. So if you want to boast about your stats. Please do. However there is much more at stake and much more to the game.

It really reminds me of an old joke. I'll clean it up for political incorrectness. A Rook while driving in his car one day is stopped by a bishop. The bishop pulls him out of the car and draws a circle on the ground and warns the Rook not to move out of the circle. The bishop then proceeds to knocking out the headlights with a baseball bat. He then looks over at the Rook and sees him laughing. So he then breaks out the front windows of the car. Again he looks at the Rook in the circle. The Rook is laughing harder. Getting angry the bishop trashes the rear window, the hood, the trunk and the tail lights. He takes a glance at the Rook again. This time the Rook is on the ground rolling, laughing so hard he has tears coming from his eyes. Finally the Bishop says why are you laughing? I just trashed your car. The Rook replies, When you weren't looking I stepped out of the circle three times.

Now I don't tell anyone how to play or enjoy the game. However stats are very manipulating and can be manipulated it ways most never dream of. They really have no impact on overall game play since the enemy can up another cartoon plane. What has real impact on the game is teamwork and friends. They keep people coming back. Working together for a common goal is a great thing. Not to sit on my high horse, I semi play for score. Do little to no milk runs to factories though. I think maybe 4 times in a year. 2x in bombers and 2x in a gv.

On a personal level I've always admired people like Dredger, Ghi, Joker, and Drone (back in the day). Who figured out long before the rest of us that this game has more to offer than just a few kills. It doesn't surprise me that some of these folks move on to the FSO where they do what they enjoy the most on a massive scale.

Anyway I though I would put this out there as food for thought.

[Rich46yo]

Using about 3 sentences just tell us what you are saying.

For the record I dont think anythings at stake other then losing a map in a cartoon flight game. Who cares?

[NoBaddy]

Perhaps you are starting to see something besides the shrubberies around you. 


Score can be manipulated. Figure out the scoring system and anyone can get a low rank.

Wars are won by numbers, not skill. Chinese Air Farce tactics, while effective, are terminally boring.

It's all about the fight. It's the battles that matter....not the war.

When you figure it out, the game can go to a whole new level. 

If you don't, you will eventually succumb to the boredom. 

[Anaxogoras]

Allow me to point out something here. I see many rooks landing multiple kills continuously. Meanwhile while they are landing all these kills Rooks are losing bases left and right. So while everyone is getting high 5s they are losing the war. Basically they are not seeing the forest for the trees. They don't take down troops at even isolated vbases. So if you want to boast about your stats. Please do. However there is much more at stake and much more to the game.

In other words, rooks are practicing the art of air combat and ignoring the "war."   Sounds like the right approach to me.  What the rooks see as a beautiful forest full of hidden pleasures the bish see as something to be clear-cut.

[The Fugitive]

I think your worried too much about the trees.

At one point you say your not telling anyone how to play the game and then...

Allow me to point out something here. I see many rooks landing multiple kills continuously. Meanwhile while they are landing all these kills Rooks are losing bases left and right. So while everyone is getting high 5s they are losing the war. Basically they are not seeing the forest for the trees. They don't take down troops at even isolated vbases. So if you want to boast about your stats. Please do. However there is much more at stake and much more to the game.

Your chastising players for not taking down the troops, or trying to win the war. Sorry, but to a lot of people thats not how to play the game.

This game revolves around combat ( so said the owner and designer of the game. Whether that is "fact" or "opinion" Im not sure, Im a bit confused on that part  ) Everything in the game is put there to generate combat. Fields are capturable, buildings can be destroyed, GV's can be killed by bombs, factories can be blown up, all because as you do these things combat usually ensues. If on the other hand a "furball" happens to be happening between two bases not of the other actions are needed because we already have combat. So to many of us who have moved on from doing these other things strait to the combat part of the game, don't bother us with the drop radar crap.

I don't "play for score" tho I do try to do the best I can in each think I do. I will bomb factories, but towns are just as good, I'll pork factories in a GV, but again towns are just as good. If there is no fight going on I have no problem using the tools HTC has given us to generate combat. Once I get a few people to defend, or push an attack, I'm back in my plane looking for combat. ohh and btw as I type this I'm 54th over all woop-de-doo 

I think too many people are worried about the trees too much. They are afraid to die, loose a base, not capture a base, miss with their bombs, lose a 1 vs 1 fight. This game is all about the fight/combat. If you like fighting to take a base, thats great !! More power to ya, but don't try to sneak in with NOE after NOE. Don't run away if you run into a bit of resistance FIGHT ! That's why we can take bases, so a fight develops and combat can be had. You like fighting in a GV, thats great too ! but don't sit there spawn camping, thats not a fight. It like fishing with dynamite, sure its easy, and for YOU it might be fun, but it sucks for the fish, and admit it there really isn't any challenge to it. And for goodness sake, GET OUT OF THE STINKING HORDES !! You'll learn alot more about flying if you go looking for fights in stead of being plane #5 in on a single enemy racing along on the deck !

There are many ways to "play" the game, but it all boils down to one thing.... combat. If your avoiding it, your in the wrong game, I hear they have the "Axis vs Allie" board game on line now, you might check into it. You belittle rooks for landing multible kills all the while they are loosing bases left and right. Who care, certainly not those of us who have found out what this game is all about..... combat. If the rooks loose enough bases what happens.... the map is reset and we get them all back! and combat continues.

I don't pick on anyones way of playing the game..... as long as they are playing the game, and that means combat. If you like to fly as if you only have one life to live, thats ok, but don't piss and moan if you get too close to a furball and somebody takes your tail off with a snap shot. If you like taking bases, no problem, but fight for it, don't try to avoid the fight by hiding under dar, or hiding behind numbers. Those you mentioned are only average players at best. Take away half their numbers or drop dar to the deck and they wouldn't capture a third of the base they try for. They fight great with their numbers, but haven't much in the way of tactics, but they will fight.... while they have overwhelming numbers. They don't "play the game" they twist things around to justify what they do, and that is avoid combat.

[Murdr]

I deleted some of the paragraphs that had to do with training, map making, research and behind the scenes contributions that make the game great for us all. These are greatly appreciated as well.

Lol, well just clip the point of the post out of the quote...

You're saying that, not I.  You claimed a "contempt for the community" which is utter BS.  The rest as I said was to illustrate a point on your definition of "the community".

I don’t see you making any impact in the arenas – maybe our playtimes don’t over lap.

Well, let's take a look.  Career stats excluding "gun ship or field"...

MachNix
6202 kills
3004 deaths
2.06 gross k/d

Nice 

Murdr
26276 kills
8183 deaths
3.21 gross k/d

So it is hard for me to value someone’s, who appears not to be having an impact on the game, criticism of someone else who is having an impact.

You changed one word here, which completely changes the subject matter from my point of view (arena to game).  Those are two distinctly different things.  There is much more to AH than the never ending war in the most populated LW arena in AH.  Every couple months there is a different squad or conglomerate of squads crowing their prowess and innovation in winning the endless MA war.  It can still be entertaining to watch after 14 years, but it's still nothing more than a rerun of the same old story.  The guys that put countless hours in, making maps, organizing and running events, providing help and training, researching historical and technical documentation and sharing it with HTC.  Those are people who have a lasting impact on "the game".  Often at the expense of their own available time for actually playing the game.  Such contributions are as far as you can get from "contempt" for the community.

Who figured out long before the rest of us that this game has more to offer than just a few kills.

The only word I can come up with is "delusional" if you believe that guys that have 10+ years doing this stuff, completely overlooked this particualr aspect of gameplay.  To the contrary, they have likely been there, done that, and moved on years ago.

What has real impact on the game is teamwork and friends.

If we clear the subscribership roles, and all new bodies come in to play AH, let's look at "impact on the game".  When a player clicks into an arena, they're likely to be presented with a help tip that someone like Rolex, Hammer, or I wrote.  When they enter the arena, they are likely to be on a map that NHawk, NoBaddy, fester or others produced.  When they pick a plane, they have the option to select a skin that people like oboe, greebo, Fencer or others produced.  When they fly a plane, that planes model is likely affected by historical data that a player took the time to research and share with HTC.  When a player needs more than the hamster wheel of the MAs to hold their interest, they have the option of special events that were innovated and refined by the likes of DoKGonzo and Brooke, and played on terrains produced by Dux's terrain team.  So if two people were gone from the game tommarow, which of those two really had an impact on the game.  The one who gave freely of their time for the enjoyment of all?  Or the one who organized team work for a few?  One of those two had a tangable lasting effect on the game.

So if you want to boast about your stats. Please do. However there is much more at stake and much more to the game.

No boasting involved.  The poster made a comment, and I produced an example to put that comment to the test.  With consideration of the fact that the developer has stated over and over that AH simulates combat between accurately modeled planes and vehicles, as opposed to simulating war.

[Banshee7]

Murdr...where do you get career stats?

[Murdr]

http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/files look under Spatula's materials

[Banshee7]

Thanks....does this find all your old names as well?

[Murdr]

Thanks....does this find all your old names as well?

It does for me, but YMMV since Skuzzy has purged to rolls of inactive names.  I'm not sure if that had an effect on the score database.

[BnZs]

Allow me to point out something here. I see many rooks landing multiple kills continuously. Meanwhile while they are landing all these kills Rooks are losing bases left and right. So while everyone is getting high 5s they are losing the war.

The reason why the quoted utterance is errant love muffinery is because the Rooks are full of the sort of squads who sweep the sky on FSO nights. You see, turns out the that myopic obsession with ACM is a big advantage in events where the "war strategy" can not be based upon infinite "lives" and on NOE/hording bases on a map too big for all bases to be defended adequately.

Bah, I tell you, all this talk about teamwork, friends, winning the larger strategy...this is what happens when you let the women get the run of the country and cart the young 'uns off to soccer practice to get their self-esteems affirmed, instead of handing them a rifle and 1 cartridge and telling them to bring back two rabbits...

[Murdr]

love muffinery

I'd like to submit this for consideration for word of the week 

[Getback]

In other words, rooks are practicing the art of air combat and ignoring the "war."   Sounds like the right approach to me.  What the rooks see as a beautiful forest full of hidden pleasures the bish see as something to be clear-cut.

Why would there be combat with out war?

[Lusche]

Why would there be combat with out war?

I hate to support that lame furballers    ...but: There had been air combat in online sims long before the concept of "war" was introduced

[Getback]

I hate to support that lame furballers    ...but: There had been air combat in online sims long before the concept of "war" was introduced

They're gone.

I have nothing against ACM's or landing kills etc. I work on my ACM's continuously. This is just my take and my observations. I furball, gv, and about anything else the game offers. I find strategy and teamwork the most rewarding that's all. But hey if you want to jump me for giving an opinion and an observation please feel free. I have big shoulders. I don't even feel the need to put any one down for their take on things.