Fix the Wirble

[WWhiskey]

Of course.

But if testing reveals you can't register any hits on a stationary target beyond 1840 yrads, all the ingame claims of "he shot me at 2.5k!" seem to be... well, less credible
And that's my whole point.

i have not tested the "exact" range on buildings  in game yet but i will!   i do know that when firing at town, the rounds disapear before they fall off, and where they are suppossed to hit, they do no damage,
i use the wirble alot, and i do not know if it is modeled correctly, because i was not a german anti aircraft gunner durring ww2,, i also am pretty sure that there would still be lead flying after you have lost sight of the rounds, I.E. 50 cal rounds would impact bombers and or fighters at more than 1K., it would just take more windage, to get hits and there effectiveness would fall off more as velocity was reduced!
 these things are not modeled in the game! so the wirble may be incorrect, as well as most all the guns in the game, verses real life,   be thankfull that the wirble rounds cease to exist at 1.5K

[Bronk]

i have not tested the "exact" range on buildings  in game yet but i will!   i do know that when firing at town, the rounds disapear before they fall off, and where they are suppossed to hit, they do no damage,
i use the wirble alot, and i do not know if it is modeled correctly, because i was not a german anti aircraft gunner durring ww2,, i also am pretty sure that there would still be lead flying after you have lost sight of the rounds, I.E. 50 cal rounds would impact bombers and or fighters at more than 1K., it would just take more windage, to get hits and there effectiveness would fall off more as velocity was reduced!
 these things are not modeled in the game! so the wirble may be incorrect, as well as most all the guns in the game, verses real life,   be thankfull that the wirble rounds cease to exist at 1.5K

The golden bb in rl did exist i'll give you that. Now think how hard it is to hit a stationary target at 1.5k , bench rested with a scope. Now try hitting a moving target at 1.5 with open sights.  I wont even get into you and the target are moving.

[waystin2]

The traverse is definitely not to actual specs, so I would say it needs to be addressed.  If I remember correctly it could fire 2 guns only, or all four guns at once so clips and limited firing are really not an issue.  I would support the lower ENY (10-15 range), but only if the traverse and ROF is left as is.  If the Wirbel's traverse & ROF are edited then there would be no need to change the ENY.

[Spikes]

alright how many pilots landed 13 kills in "real" fighting, in one sortie?
why would you be flying below 1,5 k, with 13 kills?

Thanks for pointing out realism, but I'm talking about a different kind of realism. Not the Side realism, the 13 kills realism, but the model realism. Yeah, a Mossie can't have 13 kills in real sortie (well, Maybe). But did a Lancaster dive from 6K to carpet bomb a CV? Did B24s and B17s carpet bomb GVs in the war? No. I'm not talking about real life flying, but the flight model itself. The Shermans turret got fixed, for added realism, so why can't we fix a couple minor problems on the Wirble, for added realism

I was flying that low because the fight was OTD.

[Spikes]

Rich46yo/Bombrich,
My ingame in MstWntd. I'd be happy to show you how I fly the Mossie normally, so feel free to ride shotgun with me when you see me.

[Dadsguns]

Thanks for pointing out realism, but I'm talking about a different kind of realism. Not the Side realism, the 13 kills realism, but the model realism. Yeah, a Mossie can't have 13 kills in real sortie (well, Maybe). But did a Lancaster dive from 6K to carpet bomb a CV? Did B24s and B17s carpet bomb GVs in the war? No. I'm not talking about real life flying, but the flight model itself. The Shermans turret got fixed, for added realism, so why can't we fix a couple minor problems on the Wirble, for added realism

Well, lets not stop there with the WW, why not fix the IL2 and its acrobatic maneuvers, that plane could never do the things I have seen it do in this game, realism is a compromise of reality and make believe and not an uncanny ability to create advantages due to poor skill or lack thereof.  

[Spikes]

Well, lets not stop there with the WW, why not fix the IL2 and its acrobatic maneuvers, that plane could never do the things I have seen it do in this game, realism is a compromise of reality and make believe and not an uncanny ability to create advantages due to poor skill or lack thereof.  

Do as you wish, one step at a time to make the gameplay better for all.

[Dadsguns]

Do as you wish, one step at a time to make the gameplay better for all.

As for our discussion, If a change is made, a change must be made to its adversary also to make the gameplay better for all. 

[Bronk]

Well, lets not stop there with the WW, why not fix the IL2 and its acrobatic maneuvers, that plane could never do the things I have seen it do in this game, realism is a compromise of reality and make believe and not an uncanny ability to create advantages due to poor skill or lack thereof.  

What a pilot would do IRL and what the plane could do are 2 separate things. Also what a rl pilot fearing for his life and we in our cartoon game who do not... are also 2 different things.

If you have some documentation on the the IL-2 contrary to its performance in game...... do share.

[Rich46yo]

And you sound like the cop who doesn't like being told hes wrong. Like I said before get used to it. :bird

ps dickie boie Spikes never mentioned perk. So shove that where it will do you the most good.

Actually Im a cop that just doesnt like you. So its entirely personal between me and you.

But I'm also a swell guy. I got an idea? Lets be Pals, c'mere and gives us a man hug. Gaaaaa,gaaaa,gaaaa.

Rich46yo/Bombrich,
My ingame in MstWntd. I'd be happy to show you how I fly the Mossie normally, so feel free to ride shotgun with me when you see me.

Nope, no need my young friend. I knew you were over-reaching and sincerely doubt you got 30 of those kills in two flights. Or even 14 of them. Its a great airplane so have fun with it, and its not like any of our 8lb fishes never became 10lb'rs, "or in Bronks case a 4 incher became an 8 incher". Either way you dramatized your Mossie adventure, tho it doesn't really matter.

I'll say this tho. If anything tanks are even more gamey then WWs but nobody is calling for them to be porked. How come?

My guess is your average fighter plane driver has had it to easy in this game for to long. Now all of a sudden its dangerous to go low for an easy kill, or outright vulch. In the past M-16s, while effective, were mostly only so in HOs. They didnt hit with authority on crossing shots and were themselves easy to kill. And now we have WWs along with Bi-weekly calls for it to be perked or porked to make vulching safer, the way it used to be.

I dont need to tag along in your cartoon Mossie Spike. Ive seen enough of them and if you are flying them low and surviving then you are doing a lot of vulching in them. Mossies, down low, with against even a 50%/50% fighter equation, dont last to long. In the future watch for WWs more when vulching and dont start threads accompanied by fantasy stories and then be expected to be taken seriously. In a few days somebody else will get shot down vulching by a WW, with kills to land, and we'll be back here having the same argument.

[Dadsguns]

What a pilot would do IRL and what the plane could do are 2 separate things. Also what a rl pilot fearing for his life and we in our cartoon game who do not... are also 2 different things.

If you have some documentation on the the IL-2 contrary to its performance in game...... do share.

Just some quick research on the characteristics, this quote was found:

"Governmental trials proved flight capabilities of IL-2 with ShFK-37, in comparison with the basic single-spaced IL-2 with ShVAK or Vya cannons, was significantly worse. The aircraft became more inert and more difficult to fly, especially during veering or turning maneuvers at lower altitudes. Maneuvering also became very difficult at high speeds. Pilots complained about the heavy stress of steering during maneuvers. "

In game modeling has them turning on a dime and having the capability to conduct acrobatic maneuvers which does not accurately reflect the true flight characteristics.  You can find more easily on the web.

In a few days somebody else will get shot down vulching by a WW, with kills to land, and we'll be back here having the same argument.

What would happen to this game if nobody stood up and put a foot down on this rhetorical crap....   

[Bronk]

Just some quick research on the characteristics, this quote was found:

"Governmental trials proved flight capabilities of IL-2 with ShFK-37, in comparison with the basic single-spaced IL-2 with ShVAK or Vya cannons, was significantly worse. The aircraft became more inert and more difficult to fly, especially during veering or turning maneuvers at lower altitudes. Maneuvering also became very difficult at high speeds. Pilots complained about the heavy stress of steering during maneuvers. "

In game modeling has them turning on a dime and having the capability to conduct acrobatic maneuvers which does not accurately reflect the true flight characteristics.  You can find more easily on the web.

Pilot fatigue (aka stress of steering) is not modeled into any AC.  Unless they are referring to stress on the AC, but it appears not to be worded that way.

Ohh and dickie boi... step back with the bro mance.. you're not my type.

Edit: Dads HTC needs hard data not pilot accounts. That's the only way I've seen changes in the flight model. See when the 109s had there flap deployment speed changed for an example.

[Spikes]

Nope, no need my young friend. I knew you were over-reaching and sincerely doubt you got 30 of those kills in two flights. Or even 14 of them. Its a great airplane so have fun with it, and its not like any of our 8lb fishes never became 10lb'rs, "or in Bronks case a 4 incher became an 8 incher". Either way you dramatized your Mossie adventure, tho it doesn't really matter.

I'll say this tho. If anything tanks are even more gamey then WWs but nobody is calling for them to be porked. How come?

My guess is your average fighter plane driver has had it to easy in this game for to long. Now all of a sudden its dangerous to go low for an easy kill, or outright vulch. In the past M-16s, while effective, were mostly only so in HOs. They didnt hit with authority on crossing shots and were themselves easy to kill. And now we have WWs along with Bi-weekly calls for it to be perked or porked to make vulching safer, the way it used to be.

I dont need to tag along in your cartoon Mossie Spike. Ive seen enough of them and if you are flying them low and surviving then you are doing a lot of vulching in them. Mossies, down low, with against even a 50%/50% fighter equation, dont last to long. In the future watch for WWs more when vulching and dont start threads accompanied by fantasy stories and then be expected to be taken seriously. In a few days somebody else will get shot down vulching by a WW, with kills to land, and we'll be back here having the same argument.

I think someone just doesn't want to get proved wrong. I landed a 14 kill sortie after I died with 13, so I think 17 is possible, dontcha think?

[SmokinLoon]

And you say this like HTC does not try to make it real. If he did not try you'd see lancs doing barrel rolls like a F14 could do.

I just spit out my coffee all over my monitor...  

[Dadsguns]

Pilot fatigue (aka stress of steering) is not modeled into any AC.  Unless they are referring to stress on the AC, but it appears not to be worded that way.

On the contrary, it is worded that way.... says nothing about Pilot Fatigue, its under flight characteristics.  But nice try.

EDIT:
If HTC needs DATA, they can go to Russia and get it.  I am just pointing out the results of tests that were conducted.