Author Topic: Flying level above a curved earth  (Read 1369 times)

Offline moot

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Re: Flying level above a curved earth
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2009, 08:54:46 AM »
It's less homogeneous than that, iirc.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 08:58:38 AM by moot »
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Offline Enker

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Re: Flying level above a curved earth
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2009, 02:43:50 PM »
All this thread proves is that you should never leave home without you towel. You never know what might happen
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Flying level above a curved earth
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2009, 03:02:22 PM »
Exactly. I wear mine as a sling-pack, turban, or cape. How do you like yours?

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Offline Cthulhu

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Re: Flying level above a curved earth
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2009, 04:32:33 PM »
yes, about 0.1% more iirc at sea level :aok


edit: I should explain - the earth is bulged around the equator due to its rotation (ie centripetal accel) so at the poles you are closer to the the earth's centre of mass, therefore gravitational force on an object is stronger at the poles than the equator. :)
Thx RTHolmes. After reading all this "My Physics teacher can beat up your Physics teacher" stuff, it was nice to see someone simply state the obvious.  :aok
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Flying level above a curved earth
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2009, 10:55:53 PM »
Latrobe...I see what you are getting at....it seems if the plane made a continuously perpendicular to the earth flight, his alt would continually increase and he would eventually be in orbit.  That is if he isn't using a standard altimeter and just flying "straight".

Okay, so what about this....if two planes were traveling, one directly over the other....the first at 500 feet and the second at 50000 feet.  If both of the planes had to travel from point A to point B staying at the exact orientation throughout.  Both starting over point A and finishing over B at the same time....would the higher one have to travel faster to reach point B at the same time?  Because of the curvature of the earth, wouldn't he have to cover more distance in the same amount of time??  The same thing with a merry-go-round.  The outside seats would go faster because of the same principle....right? 

NO... the low one hit a mountain  :rofl
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Offline sluggish

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Re: Flying level above a curved earth
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2009, 08:06:18 AM »
Two airplanes circumnavigate the earth at the equator.  One is travelling at 20k and the other is travelling at 40k.  How much further does the plane at 40k travel?

Offline Nwbie

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Re: Flying level above a curved earth
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2009, 09:14:43 AM »
I understand completely, like for instance -- if I am walking west- am I walking uphill due to the spin of the Earth? Or the opposite- am I walking downhill if I walk east?
Please do not throw the treadmill equation in, it confuses me, because I am sure at some point the treadmill would be perpendicular to the curvature of the earth - and my drink would fall out of that little cupholder thingy.

 :O

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Offline bcadoo

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Re: Flying level above a curved earth
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2009, 09:17:23 AM »
you weigh more at sea level than on top of everest because you are closer to the center of the Earth.  Gravitational attraction is a function of both mass and distance.

And in answer to the OP you are flying straight....through curved space that is warped by the Earth's gravitation
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Offline ghi

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Re: Flying level above a curved earth
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2009, 10:55:35 PM »
Two airplanes circumnavigate the earth at the equator.  One is travelling at 20k and the other is travelling at 40k.  How much further does the plane at 40k travel?
L=2xPixR=> L2-L1=2xPIx(R2-R1)=2x3.14( 6400km+12km-6400km-6km)=37.68km======>23 miles


Offline eagl

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Re: Flying level above a curved earth
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2009, 08:21:25 AM »
The original question mixes terms that mean different things depending on your frame of reference.

In most aircraft, "trimmed for level flight" means constant airspeed for a given pitch/power setting.  That means as a plane flies "level" around the earth, the aircraft will have a miniscule nose-down pitch rate to keep the airspeed constant, keeping it from climbing.  This has nothing to do with the attitude indicator.

Now let's consider that attitude indicator...  Any attitude system must have a reference plane.  In spacecraft, the attitude system is arbitrary, and may or may not be set to precess or rotate in any or all axis to match that arbitrary reference plane.  The reference could be relative to the sun, to stars outside our solar system, the earth, even the moon or any other object moving relative to the earth, sun, etc.  In an aircraft, the reference plane for the attitude indicator is the earth directly below the aircraft and it is tangential to the surface of the earth (assuming a perfect uniform sphere).  Some aircraft systems (usually ones based on a ring-laser gyro) are sensitive enough to detect the earth's natural wobble and rotation around the sun and must be specifically programmed to cancel that out, and are therefore programmed to precess as required to always reference the tangental plane directly below the aircraft.  Cheaper attitude gyros simply precess to reference "down", ie. the relative vector of the local gravity.  This is not a problem if the plane is usually in straight and level flight for most of the flight, but it can be a problem if the plane is maneuvering wildly or spends a lot of time in a constant turn.  In those cases, the attitude gyro will precess to reference the aircraft's attitude as "level", even if it's in a turn.  This is of course not good, which is why those types of gyros have caging knobs so you can re-cage them as required during flight.

The practical effect is that in an aircraft, if the pilot keeps the attitude gyro "level", he will not climb because the attitude gyro is generally set up to reference straight down, not reference an arbitrary absolute plane or attitude reference geometry.  A vehicle that has a gyro that references an arbitrary but absolute geometry, would fly "straight" reference to that plane if the attitude reference was kept "level", and it would therefore climb (or dive, roll, yaw, etc) relative to the earth if it's absolute attitude was held constant without regard to the presence of the earth.

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Offline bj229r

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Re: Flying level above a curved earth
« Reply #40 on: February 20, 2009, 08:39:46 AM »
Two airplanes circumnavigate the earth at the equator.  One is travelling at 20k and the other is travelling at 40k...soo....WHY do the Jonas Brothers suck?
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Offline ghi

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Re: Flying level above a curved earth
« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2009, 09:12:00 AM »
Yeah, but we are moving at the same relative
speed as our environment, including the atmosphere,
so it seems null...

I forgot what escape velocity is, guessing about
17,000mph.. Thats to escape gravity, and going
opposite of earths rotation...


 The minimum  speed needed to accelerate  an object not to fall back on Earth is 17000mph, doesn't matter in what direction is launched if is out of atmosphere and the friction with the air doesn't slow it down.  From poles to equator the spinning speed of any point on surface of the earth grows from Zero mph @ poles to 1400 mph @equator.Now, if you launch a rocket at the equator estwards ,you have to accelerate it from 1400mph to 17000 mph,takes less fuel, less working time for engines which burns tons of fuel every second, it can lift more usefull load. Same rocket from poles needs to accelerate from 0-to 17000mph, so it takes more energy, and launching it westwards from equator against earth spinning direction , start from minus -1400mph to 17000mph,takes lot more energy. That's why are launched  as close as possible from equator from Florida,French Guyana and mostly eastwards .

Offline Nwbie

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Re: Flying level above a curved earth
« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2009, 09:17:23 AM »
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Offline trigger2

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Re: Flying level above a curved earth
« Reply #43 on: February 21, 2009, 01:37:59 AM »
As you can see with my cheap-o 1337 paint skillz... due to current effects we have, no, it will maintain "level" flight...



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Offline bozon

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Re: Flying level above a curved earth
« Reply #44 on: February 21, 2009, 12:18:42 PM »
That's why are launched  as close as possible from equator from Florida,French Guyana and mostly eastwards .
Except Israel that launches its satellites westward.  Somehow, I get the feeling that a rocket launched from Israel, that heads east toward Iraq and Iran will not be appreciated.
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