A-20 paradox

[Anaxogoras]

Just to be clear:  I'm not complaining that the A-20 is very durable.  I'm also not complaining that it will shed parts in a dive with a little bit of stick movement.  I'm asking why both of the previous things can be true at the same time.

[CAP1]

Big plane with a lot of sheet metal, remember its a light bomber not a fighter....

heh......that doesn't stop you from kickin our collective butts in it. 


and i mean that in a good way. 

[CAP1]

What, the majority that prey on clueless n00bs?

you've never fought snaphook, or nkl5, or i think nb, or cobia in it have ya?

[moot]

He's saying anyone with a clue will deal with even excellently flown A20s without much trouble.

[Ack-Ack]

you've never fought snaphook, or nkl5, or i think nb, or cobia in it have ya?

I have, only two of those you mentioned are any good in the A-20, snaphook and cobia38. 

NKL5 is far too timid in anything he flies and when he's unable to run, rarely puts up any resistance.  It's like he knows he's gonna get killed so he doesn't even bother to put up a fight.  He's also usually at 20k+ to be much of a threat to anyone on the deck. 

NB is a single engine guy, he wouldn't know how to turn on a 2nd engine. 


ack-ack

[CAP1]

He's saying anyone with a clue will deal with even excellently flown A20s without much trouble.

i have a clue....possibly not much of one.......and have had my arse handed to me by those guys. especially cobia. that dude's un-friggin-real in that thing.

[Widewing]

What, the majority that prey on clueless n00bs?

I've dueled some rather good pilots using an A-20 or Boston vs their favorite fighter. Won more than lost. Do not underestimate these aircraft.


My regards,

Widewing

[Anaxogoras]

   I fought and killed an La-7 who started at least 5k ft higher than my A-20 the other day.  Although I was unable to outmaneuver him for a killing shot after a couple pings with the forward guns, I finished him off with the dorsal turret.

[Yeager]

Do not underestimate these aircraft.

Its a physics Flight Model.  Is there any record of how many air to air victories the A-20 scored against fighter aircraft during war?

Did anyone make ace piloting an A-20 Havoc?

[CAP1]

I've dueled some rather good pilots using an A-20 or Boston vs their favorite fighter. Won more than lost. Do not underestimate these aircraft.


My regards,

Widewing

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

what he said.

in the ta, a few months ago, WW was in a fm2, me in a f6f. he was in a slow fight, and had said it was ok to in on them. so i did. he also promptly handed my arse to me. i underestimated the fm2 A)because he was low and slow and B)because i thought that the fm2's were poop.

 i don't underestimate any aircraft anymore.

[Widewing]

Its a physics Flight Model.  Is there any record of how many air to air victories the A-20 scored against fighter aircraft during war?

Did anyone make ace piloting an A-20 Havoc?

The Boston has a lower wing loading than many fighters, and a rather good power loading (3,200 hp). It turns well, very well at low speeds with flaps. The A-20 is a bit heavier, but has better ailerons and elevators at high speeds.

I don't think the FM is seriously off at all.

I think that the guys who have mastered it will fly it to its limits. This means that it'll push many fighters very hard, and if the pilots of the other aircraft don't manage to utilize their advantages, they will lose.


My regards,

Widewing

[Yeager]

The Boston has a lower wing loading than many fighters, and a rather good power loading (3,200 hp). It turns well, very well at low speeds with flaps. The A-20 is a bit heavier, but has better ailerons and elevators at high speeds.

I don't think the FM is seriously off at all.

I think that the guys who have mastered it will fly it to its limits. This means that it'll push many fighters very hard, and if the pilots of the other aircraft don't manage to utilize their advantages, they will lose.


My regards,

Widewing

I appreciate what your saying but it does not resonate with my observations.  For a 16,000 pound bird it behaves as if it is missing at least 4000 pounds.  Whether it is or not?  who knows.  I dont trust the damned things at all in game.   Only ride I feel that way about.

[cobia38]

 unless you have the distinct privlage of actually flying every aircraft that is in this game in RL then you really cant compare them, now can you ???   

[humble]

I can tell you that IMO what separates those who have trouble with the A-20 from those who don't is a fundamental understanding of both "3D ACM" and lift vector management. Those who fly the A-20 reasonably well exploit both relative E state (negative as well as positive) and out of plane maneuvering for angular advantage.

Over the weekend I happened to run into a Ki-84 piloted by the CO of a major squad. Apparently by the end of the encounter he was @#$# pretty liberally over range (as per a chuckling PM from someone else) and basically saying "an A-20 can't do that....could it?). The simple truth is that he did 80% of the work, he was to fast in plane and to slow out of plane creating huge windows for me to float the A-20 thru as well as ample room and time to use the vertical to reload E and/or reset angles.

Judgment can only be gained over time and by exposure to variables. While "pilot stuff" will always be a factor 75%+ of what I do in an SBD or A-20 can be taught in just a few hours....reaching the "rare air" WW and others have is a longer undertaking and not within the grasp of us all (trust me I know)....but you can reach a point were U can make even the best pilots work for there pelts pretty quickly if you'll take advantage of the resources available. When you complain about what an A-20 can do what your really saying is that your working grasp of ACM can be improved.

[AWwrgwy]

Its a physics Flight Model.  Is there any record of how many air to air victories the A-20 scored against fighter aircraft during war?

Did anyone make ace piloting an A-20 Havoc?

The only book I've read about an A-20 group, they bombed, in formation behind a formation ship, either a glass nosed A-20 or a B-26.  They didn't dogfight and they rarely went down on the deck to straff as they didn't find the risk of getting killed worth the results.

Of course, it's like asking how many towns did 110G-2's strafe down?

What people do with or how they fly planes in game do not necessarily correlate with their use in real life.


wrongway