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Author Topic: BEST pure DOGFIGHTER in WWII  (Read 9596 times)

Offline Steve

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Re: BEST pure DOGFIGHTER in WWII
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2009, 11:37:36 AM »
Because of thew A6M's poor high speed performance and equally poor climb ability, the spit would clearly be ranked ahead of it.
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: BEST pure DOGFIGHTER in WWII
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2009, 12:20:55 PM »
Quote from: Steve on March 01, 2009, 11:37:36 AM
Because of thew A6M's poor high speed performance and equally poor climb ability, the spit would clearly be ranked ahead of it.

Depends what part of the war you're talking about.  In 1941 and 42 I think the Zeke probably beat out the Spit variants.

- oldman
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Offline Steve

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Re: BEST pure DOGFIGHTER in WWII
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2009, 12:30:39 PM »
Quote from: Oldman731 on March 01, 2009, 12:20:55 PM
Depends what part of the war you're talking about.  In 1941 and 42 I think the Zeke probably beat out the Spit variants.

- oldman

Geez.. the OP said WWII. There's no depending and no part.
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: BEST pure DOGFIGHTER in WWII
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2009, 05:43:21 PM »
Quote from: Steve on March 01, 2009, 12:30:39 PM
Geez.. the OP said WWII. There's no depending and no part.

Oh.  OK.  F8F Bearcat then.

- oldman
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: BEST pure DOGFIGHTER in WWII
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2009, 06:29:58 PM »
Long range would be the 51.  Short range interceptor would be the Spit 14.  Bomber destroyer probably the 190A8


All around dogfighter, probably the Spitfire LFIXe with full span wings and broad chord rudder.
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Offline Saxman

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Re: BEST pure DOGFIGHTER in WWII
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2009, 07:03:17 PM »
Quote from: Oldman731 on March 01, 2009, 05:43:21 PM
Oh.  OK.  F8F Bearcat then.

- oldman

Never saw combat, so doesn't count. Otherwise you'd have to include the F7F, Do-335, etc. etc.

Anyway...

F4U-4. Best all-around air-to-air fighter (that saw combat) of WWII.
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Offline Ghosth

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Re: BEST pure DOGFIGHTER in WWII
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2009, 08:42:10 PM »
Lusche had the best answer.

A6m dominated the air war until the F6f and the F4u were deployed in big enough numbers to tip the balance.

But for 4 years out of 6 A6m was the dogfighter to beat. You just can't say that about any of the other birds.
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Offline Saxman

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Re: BEST pure DOGFIGHTER in WWII
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2009, 08:51:44 PM »
Careful Ghost. Even the little F4F had a positive K/D vs. the Zero. The F4Fs strengths over the Zero--firepower, durability, and high-speed maneuverability--were what the tactics that ultimately DEFEATED the Zero were built around.

The F6F and F4U would have been just as dead playing the Zero's game.
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Offline Sox62

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Re: BEST pure DOGFIGHTER in WWII
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2009, 09:14:03 PM »
Quote from: Saxman on March 01, 2009, 08:51:44 PM
Careful Ghost. Even the little F4F had a positive K/D vs. the Zero. The F4Fs strengths over the Zero--firepower, durability, and high-speed maneuverability--were what the tactics that ultimately DEFEATED the Zero were built around.

I've got a book my dad lent me that echoes what you state.

"Fire In The Sky" -Eric Bergerud

There were some interesting comments by Japanese pilots about wishing their planes had American ruggedness,armor,and machine guns.


Great book,and well worth buying.
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Offline Saxman

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Re: BEST pure DOGFIGHTER in WWII
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2009, 09:24:12 PM »
I remember an account by Sakai where he unloaded literally everything he had into an F4F and was shocked to watch it fly off. Tough little ship. :D
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Offline Ghosth

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Re: BEST pure DOGFIGHTER in WWII
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2009, 06:55:37 AM »
Saxman I never said that US planes were not tough.  As to K/D pretty much meaningless in this discussion.

We were discussing planes that could dogfight.

US planes used totally different tactics, Altitude advantage, and numerical advantage, or dive out of the fight and run home to fly another day.

Fm2 or F4f one on one, coalt, CoE is owned by the A6m.

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Offline Bruv119

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Re: BEST pure DOGFIGHTER in WWII
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2009, 07:16:59 AM »
he said PURE dogfighter in my eyes that is a2a dogfighting on equal terms, 

sakai, nishizawa, honda,  only thing you would be able to do against them would be RUN!
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Offline Diggin

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Re: BEST pure DOGFIGHTER in WWII
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2009, 07:28:32 AM »
Quote from: Oldman731 on March 01, 2009, 05:43:21 PM
Oh.  OK.  F8F Bearcat then.

- oldman

   Awesome plane (my favorite) too bad it didn't get into the thick of things during WW2... Maybe we could throw it into AHII just to see :lol :aok
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Offline dentin

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Re: BEST pure DOGFIGHTER in WWII
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2009, 09:04:45 AM »
Quote from: Oldman731 on March 01, 2009, 05:43:21 PM
Oh.  OK.  F8F Bearcat then.

- oldman

This (old)Man knows a fine piece of hardware when he sees it!  Bearcat..more exciting than a 1k/night "escort".  :)
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Offline Rolex

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Re: BEST pure DOGFIGHTER in WWII
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2009, 09:40:36 AM »
No doubt that the F4U-4 was an excellent aircraft. Ironically, no F4U-4's were assigned to fighter squadrons during WWII. As far as I know, all were assigned to either VMF or VBF squadrons, which caused a lot of teeth gnashing by F4U-4 pilots who didn't want to be hauling around bombs. Late war VF squadrons flew F6F-5's. I'll go with the zero also as "pure dogfighter."
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