Question for squadron leaders and members

[Oldman731]

We note that, as a general matter, squadrons don't come into AvA anymore.  Never having been in a conventional squadron, I thought I would be the ideal person to ask why this is so.

- oldman

[TheBug]

Take a look at the FSO forum, give you a general feel for the likes and dislikes of squadron ops, etc..   Although they don't exactly port over to an open arena, but might help.

[fudgums]

Check your Pm's old

[Larry]

OM we already know what the answers are going to be. You can already see a hint of it in this thread.



Here is a spin to the question. Why I love to come to the AvA. I like a smaller community where the main thing of the arena is the fight, and where people actually ask if you need help while in a fight. Not like the MAs where the guy drops in, kills the guy you were fighting, then gets mad because you didn't thank him. That's why Iv always been against wars and such. They have always brought the worst of the MA crowd into a place where there was no need for base capture. Iv always said Id rather die in a great fight then have someone pick the enemy off me.

[fudgums]

OM we already know what the answers are going to be. You can already see a hint of it in this thread.



Here is a spin to the question. Why I love to come to the AvA. I like a smaller community where the main thing of the arena is the fight, and where people actually ask if you need help while in a fight. Not like the MAs where the guy drops in, kills the guy you were fighting, then gets mad because you didn't thank him. That's why Iv always been against wars and such. They have always brought the worst of the MA crowd into a place where there was no need for base capture. Iv always said Id rather die in a great fight then have someone pick the enemy off me.

theres a difference in the wars I've written up than past wars.

[Larry]

One thing that I really don't like about the upcoming war is limited lives. That has absolutely NO place in an open arena like the AVA. SEA1 or SEA2 is where that sort of thing belongs. All that's going to do is bring the timid survivalists that fly at 20-30k and only fight when they have every advantage. The same guys who run to ack from 1v1s when they loose all the alt.

[antivortex]

All that's going to do is bring the timid survivalists that fly at 20-30k and only fight when they have every advantage. The same guys who run to ack from 1v1s when they loose all the alt.

Hmmm... a squad or two comes to my mind.

[Chilli]

One thing that I really don't like about the upcoming war is limited lives. That has absolutely NO place in an open arena like the AVA. SEA1 or SEA2 is where that sort of thing belongs. All that's going to do is bring the timid survivalists that fly at 20-30k and only fight when they have every advantage. The same guys who run to ack from 1v1s when they loose all the alt.

In some instances I have to agree with Larry, but I am anxious to see how this one plays out.    I think an open mind and some viable alternatives, would be a start.  Should things need to be tweaked (as Fudgums has said he is willing to do), this is a proper forum to voice possible ideas.  Here are a couple that come to mind, when thinking of limited lives:

Once, a player has used his 2 lives per hour limit, he may either join another player as a gunner or observer.  Also, there should be no limit on ground vehicle lives (that is if any are enabled).  The ground war may emerge from down pilots waiting out there spawn penalty.

The other idea I have posted in much more detail elsewhere, is no limit to lives but a perk system that leaves them with the less desirable rides if they are not able to land successfully.  This perk system will also, "promote" pilots with enough successful landings that they would be able to fly the next level of planes, with 3 maybe 4 levels of skill. 

[Chilli]

We note that, as a general matter, squadrons don't come into AvA anymore.  Never having been in a conventional squadron, I thought I would be the ideal person to ask why this is so.

- oldman

Oops  back on topic    Oldman, I and Fudgums convinced some MA players to come to the empty AvA and checkout the COOL  color corrected map of Tunisia.  I was surprised at the number of seasoned MA veterans that knew very little or nothing at all about the AvA.  We had some fun and the numbers quickly topped off at about 20 players or so. 

Now, those new to the MA were quickly exposed to a different level of expectation, and maybe didn't respond well.  This plays to those who feel that the AvA should be some kind of exclusive club.  I disagree, because I remember my first encounters with Combat Theater, and my behavior (mainly taking bases un-opposed) was less than desirable.  Now, I understand better how much FUN it is to ask others to engage in some FRIENDLY warfare.

When we have guests to the arena, it is our duty as veterans of the AvA to guide them politely into a mindset different  from what they are accustomed to.  For example "<guest player> you know it is more rewarding sometimes to allow another player to fight 1 v 1 and either watch, find another target or ask if they require assistance." 

Squads will come to the AvA, but they will leave in short order, if they are met with insults for doing what they have been practicing for some time. 

A well planned Scenario Type Setup should have the new comer in mind.  Shadow boxing in an empty AvA will either take me back to other arenas or use it to pork ( I mean practice my attack skills).  What is left to do, but leave?

One suggestion for a trial:  For the one day Fudgums or like setups, have Squadrons sign up to participate (much like Special Events).  Unregistered participants could either be recruited or act as mercenaries, but either kills will not show, perks will not accumulate, or some other way to encourage them to either register for future events or join up with already registered squads.  The other idea, is that kills will only show as Squad kills and no gamer ID. 

[Trukk]

We note that, as a general matter, squadrons don't come into AvA anymore.  Never having been in a conventional squadron, I thought I would be the ideal person to ask why this is so.

- oldman

The AvA is basically a DA with rotating plane sets, how often do squads go to the regular DA?

[Larry]

The AvA is basically a DA with rotating plane sets, how often do squads go to the regular DA?

Seems you havent flown in the "regular DA" in a while from the looks of it.

[Qrsu]

Not trying to cast any stones here, I am simply going to answer the question from my own perspective:

I think because of the ruleset/philosophies that are present in the AvA most squads prefer not to get together in there. It's difficult to really fly as a squad when everyone is expected to fly solo, in fair 1v1s with no outside help.

Don't get me wrong, the AvA is a fun place to be when you're looking for those fair 1v1s against good pilots. It isn't bad when there are equal sides and there are friendly duels without really worrying about 2v1s or more.

So on the one hand: The AvA is a great area to learn ACM in fair fights.
On the other hand: Most squads don't fly as individuals, they fly as a group. Which wouldn't fit in the style recommended in this arena.

I don't participate in this arena much, so I won't say that there's anything wrong with it. However, this is why I believe no squads really participate.

[1azbaer]

Why don't squads do what we do, when numbers are low we split the squad and use the true aces of the squad to  school the rest.

[flatiron1]

Actually the AVA was the 353rd's home arena for quite a while. The Battle of Brittan and Battle of Aces comes to mind. JG11, JG54, the Avengers, SOAR  to name a few were regulars. I myself dropped out of the AVA for a while because for some reason I started discoing too much there. Not been a issue recently. Hope to be  a regular when Fudgums setup starts.

[Chilli]

Not trying to cast any stones here, I am simply going to answer the question from my own perspective:

I think because of the ruleset/philosophies that are present in the AvA most squads prefer not to get together in there. It's difficult to really fly as a squad when everyone is expected to fly solo, in fair 1v1s with no outside help.

Don't get me wrong, the AvA is a fun place to be when you're looking for those fair 1v1s against good pilots. It isn't bad when there are equal sides and there are friendly duels without really worrying about 2v1s or more.

So on the one hand: The AvA is a great area to learn ACM in fair fights.
On the other hand: Most squads don't fly as individuals, they fly as a group. Which wouldn't fit in the style recommended in this arena.

I don't participate in this arena much, so I won't say that there's anything wrong with it. However, this is why I believe no squads really participate.

I agree, but I see worse behavior from those not in squads, just running in to grab a kill.  Working in numbers to manipulate the opponent in a wingman fashion is one thing.  Snatching up a stalled, roped opponent from beneath the pilot who set him up  , that is just a selfish mindset that belongs in no arena, but has to be politely discarded.