gun selection help

[Cthulhu]

.308 is definitely the way to go if you ever expect to shoot for your survival. Sure you can haul more 5.56 rds with you, but with my M1A I know I only have to hit the target once.

IIRC, both the AR's in .308 (Armalite & DPMS) have had some durability issues in the past. Maybe the others can shed more light on this. Also, the last time I checked, AR-10 mags were rediculously expensive, whether you were buying them new, or having M-14 mags modified.

Just my .02 

[Modas]

you probably not be able to use .223 in most 5.56 guns because they are not powerful enough and will not cycle

Not true.  I shoot both .223 and 5.56 in my AR15 and cycles both reliably.  I've put over 5000 rounds thru mine and have yet to have a FTF or FTE on either type.  If 223 doesn't cycle a 5.56 chambered gun, you are either shooting crappy ammo, or the rifle needs a serious cleaning.

ETA - you may want to consider the 6.8 spc.  Better downrange ballistics than the .308, heavier hitting than the 5.56.  My next AR build is going to be a 6.8

[Cthulhu]

Not true.  I shoot both .223 and 5.56 in my AR15 and cycles both reliably.  I've put over 5000 rounds thru mine and have yet to have a FTF or FTE on either type.  If 223 doesn't cycle a 5.56 chambered gun, you are either shooting crappy ammo, or the rifle needs a serious cleaning.

ETA - you may want to consider the 6.8 spc.  Better downrange ballistics than the .308, heavier hitting than the 5.56.  My next AR build is going to be a 6.8

Agreed. I've put plenty of .223 & 5.56 thru my Bushmaster w/o a single malfunction of any kind.
(I have split case necks on reloads, but that's just because I was too lazy to anneal the cases beforehand. That Lake City brass is HARD  )

[Rich46yo]

Recoil is often subjective and also, in part, controlled by rifle/stock construction. Be that as it may a 7.62x51 chambered military rifle is tossing out a 150 grn class pill at roughly the same velocity as the 5.56mm M-16 shoots a 55 grn, or 62grn, bullet. So the 7.62 NATO round will probably have more felt recoil. Not that any of this is a problem however. The 7.62 rifle will probably be heavier, longer, and able to soak up recoil better.

If it makes you feel better then keep in kind that countless millions of troops throughout history were able to learn to shoot the .30 cals, 7mms, 8mms, 7.62mms that make up this class of military rifle. I have found their recoil so light as to be a non-issue. And even if your recoil sensitive these are not heavily recoiling rifles. Then again I have a .375 H&H that I find "soft" to shoot due its weight and stock by Winchester. It feels "lighter" to me recoil-wise then many a .300 or .338 mag, even a 3006 or two.

In my mind I consider the 7.62 NATO the best military rifle round ever made. I do understand why we made the move to the 5.56mm, even more why we stayed with it. But "perfection" was found in the M1A1 and 7.62x51 NATO.

I guess 6.8 spc is an option but no offense here. If your asking about relative recoil in these weapons your probably not in the market for a specialty round like the 6.8. Its been a few years but last I checked nobody could even find ammo for it. 6.8 is more of an advanced users load. While it takes no special skill there still is the $$ involved in upgrading and the extra ammo choice.

Buy the 5.56mm. If you want, later down the line, just buy the 6.8 upper and extra magazines. Getting the rifle, and getting competent with it, are job #1 right now. Its not like your going to be hunting deer with it anyways. That and 5.56mm ammo will be lots cheaper anyway.

[Treize69]

do you have a link to it?

thanks,

opposum

Heres one I found online. I usually see them going for about that at my local shop.

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/AC-AKF-22.aspx

[stroker71]

I have bought a few things off here....but it's been awhile.

http://www.auctionarms.com/

[SmokinLoon]

Ah jeeeesh.  There will be a million suggestions, but only a few are worth really taking to heart.  Mine is one of them.   

If you want an AR15, here are the questions you need to ask yourself:

1. What is the purpose of the rifle?
2. What is the budget.

As far as purpose goes, if you just want a shooter and dont "need" anything special, then simply look for a Colt, Bushmaster, or Rock River Arms.  Those three are the tops for the civilian market hands down.  There are other brands that are just fine, but nithing sticks out about them and they are are relatively new to the AR15 game (DPMS, Stag, S&W, etc), and the only brand I suggest you stay away from Olymipc.  Just look for a basic AR15.  My stock Colt AR15 and I used to nail prairie dogs all day long at 200 yards very consistantly (3in or less groups at 200 yards).  You dont need a $2000 rifle to be accurate, you need a good trigger and optics.  Dont worry about all the BS. 

Right now, since Obama and his buddy Holder are made it clear thay *want* to reinstate the assinine "Assault Weapons Ban", the prices have just jumped from %10 to $50 depending on the model of evil rifle you're buying.  You can still find a nice and accurate (and stock) AR15 rifle for less than $800 if you watch closely.

I've been around AR15's for the last 20 years and have put thousands of rounds down range at varmints, targets, and steel plates in competitions.  I reload my own ammo and put 100 or so rounds down range a month on average (more in summer, less in winter).  My own AR15 is a Colt MT7600 that has been put back into "natural" form.  Since it was built during the AWB in 1999, it came without a flash hider, no bayonet lug, and it also had a HBAR (heavy barrel).  I sent mine in after the ban and had threads put on for the flash hider and the barrel milled down to "government" specs.  Now, my rifle is exactly like the M16"A4" that US Marines are carrying (minus the full auto/burst).  Mine also has mounted on top an ACOG TA31 w/ "donut" reticle.  It is a sweet rig and I am glad I'm the giver and not the receiver.  Any baddie out to 300 yards is going to have to be well hidden from me in order to be safe.      

Feel free to PM me with any questions. 

[FireDrgn]

Hey opposum  check out MIcroTech before you buy   sweet.   

http://www.msarinc.com

[Modas]

I guess 6.8 spc is an option but no offense here. If your asking about relative recoil in these weapons your probably not in the market for a specialty round like the 6.8. Its been a few years but last I checked nobody could even find ammo for it. 6.8 is more of an advanced users load. While it takes no special skill there still is the $$ involved in upgrading and the extra ammo choice.

Buy the 5.56mm. If you want, later down the line, just buy the 6.8 upper and extra magazines. Getting the rifle, and getting competent with it, are job #1 right now. Its not like your going to be hunting deer with it anyways. That and 5.56mm ammo will be lots cheaper anyway.

Actually the 6.8 is not considered a specialty round anymore.  There is quite a following for it and ammunition is readily available.  Granted, its not cheap like mil-surplus 5.56, but its easy to get and recoil is not much more than the 5.56 which in my opinion is negligble anyway.  If you want to all there is to know on the 6.8, visit the following... 

http://www.68forums.com/forums.php

There are some EXTREMELY knowledgable folks over there and quite a bit of independent development going on by people in the 6.8 community terms of chamber configurations, optimal barrel twist etc that even the mainstream mfgs aren't doing yet.  I see this round replacing the 5.56 in the coming years.