« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 ... 17   Go Down

Author Topic: mosquito fans  (Read 26556 times)

Offline Scherf

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3409
Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #120 on: June 23, 2009, 07:14:03 AM »
Can't think of anything to contribute to the elevators debate beyond this - chart of control surface sizes and movments from the FBVI manual:

Logged
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline Scherf

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3409
Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #121 on: June 23, 2009, 09:34:36 AM »
I think the issue with climb may be connected to the fact we (apparently) have Merlin 23s, not Merlin 25s.

The Mosquito Merlin 23 data card from the Ministry of Aircraft Production which I have says the max boost is +14 at low levels, +16 at high levels, same as we have in AH. The Merlin 25 card just has +18, as does the Pilot's Notes for the M25 Mossie.

The data card for the Merlin 23 Mosquito says initial climb of 2,400 feet / min at max load (including 4x500 lb-ers), the card for the Merlin 25 version says 2,850 feet / min with the same load. The max speed is slightly higher for the M25, but it develops it at a much lower level in low gear, 1,000 feet lower in high gear.

Sharp & Bowyer say specificially that 418 Squadron, 605 Squadron and 23 Squadron, the first to receive the FBVI, all had 25s from the start, and that 2nd TAF began converting from Merlin 23s to Merlin 25s in late 1943. I'll dig out the exact quotes later to be sure.

So, we've a weaker engine version, in addition to the flame damper issue.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2009, 09:40:28 AM by Scherf »
Logged
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23048
Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #122 on: June 23, 2009, 10:17:10 AM »
I don't think so, scherf.  I think it is simply a case that HTC has the gauges displaying Merlin 23 data while the engines produce Merlin 25 power.  If they were producing Merlin 23 power the performance would be a lot worse as the Merlin 23 produced significantly less power.
Logged
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline mechanic

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11327
Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #123 on: June 23, 2009, 12:41:07 PM »
I think if the mossie was improved much further it would have to be perked. If HTC did upgrade the mossie it would be a real shame not to include a couple of different models to choose from.  :pray
Logged
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23048
Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #124 on: June 23, 2009, 12:43:51 PM »
Quote from: mechanic on June 23, 2009, 12:41:07 PM
I think if the mossie was improved much further it would have to be perked. If HTC did upgrade the mossie it would be a real shame not to include a couple of different models to choose from.  :pray
It hardly sees any use now.  350-355mph on the deck and an extra 300fpm climb is not going to turn it into an F4U-4.
Logged
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline mechanic

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11327
Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #125 on: June 23, 2009, 12:54:04 PM »
No, I agree with that. Speaking personally only, I find the her to be in the top 5% best fighters in the game already! Those few extra mph would be great, no doubt. I still think the current mosquito is one of the most underrated planes we have.
Logged
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline Scherf

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3409
Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #126 on: June 23, 2009, 06:54:13 PM »
I don't know exactly what we have now, naturally, but initial climb seems to be too low and full throttle height in low gear too high for the Merlin 25. The MAP data cards suggest there was little difference in top speed at full throttle height, but that the altitude in question dropped with the 25s, hence more power/climb available at takeoff.

Checked the quote in Sharp & Bowyer - "418 Squadron at Ford was in May, 1943 equipped with Mk.VIs, fitted with Merlin 25s to increase low-altitude speed." Table at the end of the chapter also confirms the intruder squadrons were the first to get the Mk.VIs. 487 Squadron of 2nd TAF was, according to the same source, informed on 5 November 1943 that its Merlin 23 aircraft were to be replaced by others powered by the superior Merlin 25s."
« Last Edit: June 23, 2009, 07:24:55 PM by Scherf »
Logged
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline FTJR

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1996
Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #127 on: June 23, 2009, 07:53:42 PM »
Quote from: mechanic on June 23, 2009, 12:54:04 PM
No, I agree with that. Speaking personally only, I find the her to be in the top 5% best fighters in the game already! Those few extra mph would be great, no doubt. I still think the current mosquito is one of the most underrated planes we have.

I cant find it now, but Lusche posted a speed chart recently which I found interesting. IF we get the extra 15mph on the mossie it would make faster over a fair few of the fighters it cant out run now. Which of course you've all been saying, but it was nice to see it in graphical form.
Logged
Bring the Beaufighter to Aces High
Raw Prawns      

B.O.S.S. "Beaufighter Operator Support Services" 
Storms and Aeroplanes dont mix

Offline Scherf

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3409
Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #128 on: June 24, 2009, 07:17:04 AM »
I put the Merlin 23 data card for the Mossie up on the AHWiki site, just for shoots and giggles. Bear in mind performance numbers are for full fuel and full bombs, which will include 5 mph off for the wing bomb carriers.
Logged
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline Scherf

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3409
Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #129 on: June 26, 2009, 07:52:50 AM »
Been a couple of  days since I spammed the thread, so here's another graph.

It shows the results of the test of a B.IV fitted with saxophone exhausts (which we have) vs. ejector exhausts (which all good children want).

The full test docco is available, I believe, on Mike Williams' excellent site:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/

Logged
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23048
Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #130 on: June 26, 2009, 09:51:30 AM »
Yup, that speed boost is about what I have been saying the boost would be.
Logged
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23048
Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #131 on: June 26, 2009, 09:32:13 PM »
For fun, I modded moot's Me410 speed chart from the 210/410 thread in the Wishlist forum with what I think is a basically correct speed chart for a Merlin 25 powered Mosquito Mk VI with ejector stacks.

Logged
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23048
Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #132 on: July 09, 2009, 01:51:31 PM »
Nobody had any comments about my estimated speed chart?
Logged
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16333
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #133 on: July 09, 2009, 02:15:25 PM »
It looks like extra thrust the mossie could really use? :)
Logged
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline mechanic

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11327
Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #134 on: July 09, 2009, 03:54:59 PM »
No escape for a scared spit16 at 13k if it had that performance..

What strikes me is how awesome the p38 really is.
Logged
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 ... 17   Go Up
« previous next »