mosquito fans

[Karnak]

The only one I've seen (for the FB.VI) is a de Havilland test which was run in response to the problems whcih the A&AEE identified with the lemon test aircraft. (The non-lemon did the same speed with the saxophone exhausts as the lemon fitted with ejectors in the hands of the A&AEE. dH took the lemon back, cleaned it up, re-did the test and sent the results to Boscombe Downe.)

It's available at:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mosquito/hj679-dh.pdf

Yes, but even then the lemon performed below standard.  As I recall, the clean up got it up to about a dampened Mossie's speed.

[Scherf]

Hmmm, I think the non-lemon performed as expected with saxophone exhausts. The A&AEE put stub exhausts on the lemon, expected it to go 15 mph faster than the saxophone version, foiund that in fact it put up the same numbers.

dH took it back, found it went as expected, top speed aroud 384 mph at 12,400 feet, 19,100 lbs, with drop tanks (which knocked off 5 mph according to Sharp & Bowyer), Merlin 25s, ejector exhausts.

[Karnak]

Hmmm, maybe I am reading the charts wrong.  What speed did it get at low alt?  I didn't see deck speeds there.

From what I have read, I'd expect a Mossie 6 with Merlin 25s and ejector stacks to do about 350 on the deck.  I have been told as much by a Mossie pilot and the numbers all match up to support it.

[Scherf]

  I didn't see deck speeds there.

I thinik they did the test from full-throttle height in low-altitude gear (MS? FS? I can't recall just now...) upwards. dH got 372 mph at that level, A&AEE 354. In the higher gear, dH got 384, A&AEE 364. Both A&AEE and dH had wing tanks on, which again cost around 5 mph. All on HJ679, with ejector exhausts. A&AEE had a weight of 20,400 lbs.

[bozon]

according to this, and comparing to the HTC speed vs. alt plots, the speed peaks of the low gear is spot on: 372 mph at 6000ft. At high gear, the test data is a bit faster: 384 mph at 12.5 kft vs. 380 mph in HTC plot.

However, what this plot does not show is how the speed falls for low altitude. It is the deck speed that is important for the Mk. VI and where external drag can make a difference since engine power will not vary by much (boost, according to the plot before it, is 18lb/sqi at 6kft and should stay like that down to 0?).

It is also interesting that the external tanks reduce the speed by barely 4 mph.

[Karnak]

according to this, and comparing to the HTC speed vs. alt plots, the speed peaks of the low gear is spot on: 372 mph at 6000ft. At high gear, the test data is a bit faster: 384 mph at 12.5 kft vs. 380 mph in HTC plot.

However, what this plot does not show is how the speed falls for low altitude. It is the deck speed that is important for the Mk. VI and where external drag can make a difference since engine power will not vary by much (boost, according to the plot before it, is 18lb/sqi at 6kft and should stay like that down to 0?).

It is also interesting that the external tanks reduce the speed by barely 4 mph.

I don't follow you on that.  The 384 is with drop tanks, which lowered the speed by ~5mph in tests.  That would make that test without drop tanks at 389mph compared to the 380mph of the AH Mossie.

[SmokinLoon]

Prime alts for speed are 8500ft and 15000ft for the AH2 Mossie.  And someone point out to me where the charts say it will reach 380mph in AH2, I've not ever achieved 380mph in level flight at in my Mossie at any weight.  The AH2 charts show less than 375mph max (371mph is the best I've ever achieved at 15k).

Without the exhaust baffles, the Mossie would have another 5-15mph speed depending on alt.  Those are not someone's scribbling in those papers from Niel Stirling, those are official test docs from de Haviland.  Why should HTC need anything else???

[bozon]

I don't follow you on that.  The 384 is with drop tanks, which lowered the speed by ~5mph in tests.  That would make that test without drop tanks at 389mph compared to the 380mph of the AH Mossie.

the red curve in the last plot of the posted pdf file is without tanks.

And someone point out to me where the charts say it will reach 380mph in AH2,

As you can see, the WEP line goes a little over over the 375 grid line. If you can achieve that in the game is another issue. Also note that the weight is HTC plot is higher that the posted test (in the title line)

[Scherf]

Thanks Bozon.

Can't say I ever got the AH Mossie up to that speed. As Karnak says, speed on the deck seems to be the thing, in AH that seems to be about 338, without wing tanks.. That's about what the A&AEE say, though they've got around 333 with external tanks fitted. All of that is for saxophone exhausts on HX809 or stubs on ("the lemon") HJ679.

Funny thing is, their test says it's for 95% takeoff weight = 20,400 lbs. I wonder where the AH 22,221 lbs comes from?

[SmokinLoon]

the red curve in the last plot of the posted pdf file is without tanks.
As you can see, the WEP line goes a little over over the 375 grid line. If you can achieve that in the game is another issue. Also note that the weight is HTC plot is higher that the posted test (in the title line)

(Image removed from quote.)

With WEP???  Yeah I saw saw that, I was wondering of their was chart somewhere I had not seen.  I wouldnt even consider using the Mossie's WEP in any arguement of this nature.  If the real thing moved along at 389mph without WEP then comparing AH2's misguided incarnation w/ WEP at 380mph is not the same thing. 

[Scherf]

So far as I know, the tests all show performance at the 5-minute engine limit, i.e. max boost. & revs, = WEP.

[bozon]

The max speeds in the test (with the wing tanks) were obtained with just a little over 17lb/sqi boost (last point on the plot, but they draw the line up to 18lb/sqi, so I am not sure how high they actually went). Now that I checked in the game offline, AH mosquito obtains only 14lb/sqi boost WITH WEP.

Posted before, but is worth another post - Mosquito VI ace pilot stories. Note how confident he was in their ability to outrun 190s and 109s unless they had alt advantage:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3897/is_200406/ai_n9455871

According to gonzoville, our Mosquito can just about match 109F-4 and G-6 on the deck (with WEP) and is out paced by 109G-2. It is slower than all 190 models (in cluding A-5, the slowest) on the deck. Not to mention that the elevator controls feel like rubber bands, to the point where it is sometimes hard to stall the plane, while they were reported to be very responsive in the actual thing.

[SmokinLoon]

The max speeds in the test (with the wing tanks) were obtained with just a little over 17lb/sqi boost (last point on the plot, but they draw the line up to 18lb/sqi, so I am not sure how high they actually went). Now that I checked in the game offline, AH mosquito obtains only 14lb/sqi boost WITH WEP.

Posted before, but is worth another post - Mosquito VI ace pilot stories. Note how confident he was in their ability to outrun 190s and 109s unless they had alt advantage:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3897/is_200406/ai_n9455871

According to gonzoville, our Mosquito can just about match 109F-4 and G-6 on the deck (with WEP) and is out paced by 109G-2. It is slower than all 190 models (in cluding A-5, the slowest) on the deck. Not to mention that the elevator controls feel like rubber bands, to the point where it is sometimes hard to stall the plane, while they were reported to be very responsive in the actual thing.

Um, the 190A-5 is not the slowest of the 4 we have.  It can fly faster then both the "twins" (A-8/F-8), and can climb the best of the 4 as well.   

The Mossie was and is faster than both the 109E-4 and F-4, is dead on w/ the G-6, but slower than the G-2, G-14, and K-4.  Throw in the different alts and the gaps will merge and veer apart.  I dont hesistate for a minute of I know the E is simlar to "extend" vs ono of the 3 slower 109's, but vs the other more faster 109's I do my best to keep my nose between me and them.

One has to wonder how and why HTC does certain things, ESPECIALLY since they dont seem to explain topics such as the Mossie.  I keep hearing that they adjust flight models when concrete and legit data is presented but yet AH2's Mossie has been shown time and time again to be questionable (even with the initial corrections and they STILL have not addressed the issue.

Why do they use a retarded Mossie (baffles/speed/handling/etc)?  Why do they not make public statements or sticky threads in which they reply to justify their reasonings?  It is one thing to berate and points fingers at them, but when one can point a finger at official D.H. info and ask "Why" to them, there is no response.  So in turn.. threads like this one keep coming up.

Has there been any thought about making a thread for each individual aircraft and variants, class of aircraft "fighters, gv's buffs, etc", or other such centralized data base??? 
   

[Scherf]

Well, they had a point when we had night, but as we no longer do, it all seems strange. There's enough photos of daylight FB.VIs with ejector stubs around from '43 onwards to back it up if needs be.

[Rich46yo]

I just wish we flew them more. Once upon a time there was always Rook squadrons, or even put together missions, flying Mossies all the time. For the life of me I dont know why we quit doing it. Missions consisting of Mossies, typhoons, Temps, Spits, are not only lethal but also very fast.

The Mossie is, IMOHO, the best strike aircraft in the game.