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Author Topic: mosquito fans  (Read 26468 times)

Offline Scherf

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Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #45 on: March 26, 2009, 05:28:56 AM »
All of those speeds are about 10 mph slower than the MAP docco for the relevant condition (wing bombs on / off), which as noted above are themselves about 5 mph slower than absolute max due to wing bomb carriers.

I will try to get the MAP document up on the AHwiki site.

Edit - the docco is in these two files:

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Image:MosquitoVIMerlin25a.JPG
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Image:MosquitoVIMerlin25b.JPG

These figures must I believe be for a Mosquito FB.VI with ejector exhausts - note that with a 5 mph speed loss for the wing bomb mountings (which remain after the bombs are dropped and are roughly the same size & shape as the wing tanks) these figures correspond very closely to those in the de Havilland tests.

Also note the climb rate given.

Will try to get the CG chart stuff up.

Thanks to "drover" and the RAF Museum Hendon for the original.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2009, 06:06:41 AM by Scherf »
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... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2009, 08:25:36 AM »
*rubs hands together*    :D

Awesome info... lots of concete stuff being presented.  Lets only hope that this thread is being watched... with extreme interest and a positive light... by HTC and Co.  One can only hope.   :aok    :)

FWIW, I also tested max speed with no ord, no ammo, and I burned off as much fuel as possible, with only 10 gal left in the tanks the best level speed I could get at 8500ft (the lower of the 2 "prime" alts[8500ft and 15k] was 373mph.  I'll test the same parameters at 15k and see what I get.  I'll post the info right here.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2009, 10:54:57 AM by SmokinLoon »
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2009, 11:36:49 AM »
Evidently, people are only able to edit their post once?

Anyways... I tested the Mossie with no extra weight.  I took it up to 15k, went level, fired all the ammo, and just let it ride.  I went 3 sectors out and 3 back on %25 fuel and took speed and weight readings as the fuel got real low.

15k alt, no ord, no ammo, no WEP:

30 gal left = 16650 lbs and 379mph
10 gal left = 16533 lbs and 379mph
 1 gal left = 16480 lbs and 379mph

 
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Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline Scherf

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Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2009, 05:41:56 PM »
I have to say I'm now as confused by the climb numbers as by the speed numbers. The AH charts have (by hook or by crook) the same weight as the MAP docco, but the AH climb results are lethargic compared to the 2,850 ft/min (at max weight) given by the MAP.
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... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline Scherf

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Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2009, 02:43:45 AM »
Quote from: SmokinLoon on March 26, 2009, 11:36:49 AM

 1 gal left = 16480 lbs and 379mph

 

Thanks for that, Loon - in that case the AH empty weight is about 240 lbs too heavy. MAP says 16208, but that's with all oil gone and I don't know if AH models this. With all 283 lbs of oil still aboard but all bombs dropped, fuel burned off and ammo pooped into space, I get 16,241 lbs empty.

Will post the CG chart when I get round to it, maybe my spreadsheet too.

So, currently, the AH Mossie is too slow, climbs too slowly, is too heavy  - anything else?
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... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline bozon

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Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2009, 04:00:39 AM »
240 lbs out of 16200 is pretty negligible and can be attributed to what "empty" actually means. The definition gets fuzzy when you get to the equipment carried n the plane (w/o oxygen, how many radios, the weight of the pilots and their equipment, other survival equipment...)
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Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2009, 08:14:50 AM »
I'm not too concerned with 240lbs.  It shouldnt make hardly a difference.  I also did some testing on the differences in weights and speeds for the aircraft at 8500ft w/ both the hvy and lt ammo loadouts... almost nothing to make mention of, really. 

Also, if you look at the difference in speeds between the "no ords" vs the 2/500lbs internal you'll see that there is only 2-3 mph difference in top speed at 6000ft.  That is 1000lbs more weight and that only cuts back the speed by 2-3mph.  I dont think a near empty weight difference of 240lbs or so would make too much of a performance impact.

With that being said, that weight could be linked to something that causes the problem... like those rinky dink EXHAUST BAFFLES?   :D
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Offline chewiex

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Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #52 on: March 30, 2009, 09:44:20 AM »
Quote from: Scherf on March 18, 2009, 05:13:56 AM
I thinik they did the test from full-throttle height in low-altitude gear  (MS? FS? I can't recall just now...) upwards. dH got 372 mph at that level, A&AEE 354. In the higher gear, dH got 384, A&AEE 364. Both A&AEE and dH had wing tanks on, which again cost around 5 mph. All on HJ679, with ejector exhausts. A&AEE had a weight of 20,400 lbs.

 :huh :huh Airplanes with gears?  :huh :huh

 :P Note to self.... got to wishlist and request reverse for my Pony.  :D
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Offline MiloMorai

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Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #53 on: March 30, 2009, 09:49:16 AM »
Not hard to understand as the supercharger had 2 gear ratios > one for low/medium altitudes and the other for high altitudes. :eek:

Never heard of 2 speed, 2 stage superchargers?
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Offline chewiex

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Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #54 on: March 30, 2009, 09:51:50 AM »
 :huh Nope, I don't believe so. I'm sure your right, just thought it sounded funny,lol. :aok
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A8Chustr (Formerly A8Chewey, DasChewy) ..for a wounded man shall say to his assailant, if I live, I will kill you. If I die, you are forgiven. Such is the rule of honor. Lamb of God, Omerta from "Ashes of the Wake".

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #55 on: March 30, 2009, 01:40:42 PM »
Do we have the weight values for the FB MkIV with the baffles on, or is that the data we're still searching for?  I cant imagine the extra weight penalty being worth anywhere near the drag penalty.   

I'm trying to find the printed info that shows the speeds of the Mossie FB MkIV w/ the baffles, I had them saved but deleted them evidently.   
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Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline Scherf

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Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #56 on: March 31, 2009, 12:29:10 AM »
I believe there's a B.IV test with & without the saxophone exhausts over at Mike Williams' site, WWII Aircraft Performance I think it is.

The FB.VI stuff with/without gets us back to the whole "lemon" issue. The aircraft tested by Boscombe Down with stub ejectors was on two occasions not as fast as it was expected to be and is even described in one report as "not representative of the type." That was the aircraft which dH took back and re-tested, and which topped out at 384.

I'ts not just the external baffles though, more the exhaust gas vessel itself. I once posted a graphic here of how the thing worked, will see if I can find it again.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2009, 12:32:01 AM by Scherf »
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... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline bozon

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Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #57 on: April 09, 2009, 08:06:21 AM »
The last flying mosquito showing its feathers, a short while before it stopped flying.
What a beauty  :salute
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRGwfNrnWsc&feature=related
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Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #58 on: April 14, 2009, 09:34:55 PM »
Quote from: bozon on April 09, 2009, 08:06:21 AM
The last flying mosquito showing its feathers, a short while before it stopped flying.
What a beauty  :salute
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRGwfNrnWsc&feature=related

Awesome... thx for posting.   :aok
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Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline Angus

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Re: mosquito fans
« Reply #59 on: April 15, 2009, 04:27:12 PM »
She does turns that I could not copy in AH....
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)
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