Fw190

[Saurdaukar]

I need a lesson from you.  I'm not exactly sure what either the F-4 or G- 2 can do to out-perform the almightly Spit16.  I do my best to keep the fight verticle, but it seems the Spitfires can do it all better save for a wee bit of climb.

The flat turn is usually what most end up doing, in which case the F4 has it beat.  Vertical?  Not so much.  But then, the early 109 driver shouldnt be playing that game against a late war uber-ride, anyway.

The G2 is a bit better suited to fighting a "better" stick in a 16 and less suited to a n00b stick, oddly enough.  Against a flat turn, the 16 will win.  However, with an alternating climb/dive turn and tail-heavy trim against the 16, I find that the G2 can pull guns consistently.  Even the G6 can get close due to the softer stall.

Problem solved.   

Shoot me a PM - love spending time in the DA.  I usually have to goad people into doing it.   

[33Vortex]

Only one way to fly a 190 imo, in the vertical. The 190 in general is not a good "dogfighter" in the traditional meaning of the word. However, it is a good air superiority fighter, as long as you are not facing a numerically superior enemy and is at a tactical disadvantage. The only decent "dogfighter" of the 190 family is the Ta152H which has a respectable turn ratio.

The 190 is, generally speaking, a pure B&Z fighter. While there are variations between the types this remains true for all of them.

[Plazus]

190 D9

I love this plane for two reasons... 1. Its fast as hell and 2. Its got good firepower (although not the best).
I find the Dora is full of surprises because it is an unusually fast plane for something that carries cannons. And about 500 rounds of cannons that is. Most planes that are fast usually carry MGs, with the exception of the L-gay 7. Im more of a BnZer and the Dora seems to fit my fighting style the best.

Ive flown all the 190 models and the 152, and I like them all. The 152 on the other hand, is a paradox to me. If I see a 152, I know that the pilot there is probably a good one. I know next to little about the plane, except that it has an ungodly fast top speed over 20k. Any advice on flying it?

[moot]

Know its tail end by heart. Don't overestimate the elevators, or underestimate the rudder. Use the vertical. Stay smooth. Plan ahead.

[Karnak]

190 D9

I love this plane for two reasons... 1. Its fast as hell and 2. Its got good firepower (although not the best).
I find the Dora is full of surprises because it is an unusually fast plane for something that carries cannons. And about 500 rounds of cannons that is. Most planes that are fast usually carry MGs, with the exception of the L-gay 7. Im more of a BnZer and the Dora seems to fit my fighting style the best.

Ive flown all the 190 models and the 152, and I like them all. The 152 on the other hand, is a paradox to me. If I see a 152, I know that the pilot there is probably a good one. I know next to little about the plane, except that it has an ungodly fast top speed over 20k. Any advice on flying it?

370mph+ on the deck club:

Cannon armed:
Bf109K-4
Fw190D-9
La-7
Tempest Mk V
Typhoon Mk Ib

Machine gun armed:
F4U-4

[Lusche]

If I see a 152, I know that the pilot there is probably a good one. I know next to little about the plane, except that it has an ungodly fast top speed over 20k.

That isn't as much the truth as the community seems to believe. Actually from 20k to about 28k the P-51D is faster. The P47N is faster than the 152 at any alt above 7k! The F4-U4 from 7k to 26K. The 109K is faster at any altitude up to 27K. The Dpit 14 from 19K to 26K. Between 20k and 25K, even the good old P-47-D40 has about the same top speed...




Once I preferred the 190D for it's amazing speed and acceleration. But nowadays I fly mostly the Ta 152 despite all it's shortcomings for two reasons:

Grace and firepower.

[moot]

The 152 is also very slow to accelerate in level flight.  At 41k, its top level speed altitude, it takes over 20 minutes to reach 470TAS from the ~180IAS climb speed. It might be quicker to keep climbing ~5K and shallow dive back to 41k.

I will say that the 47N isn't just "faster than the 152" at anything above 26k. The N's speed tapers off past its 35k optimal altitude (or maybe I'm thinking of the climb curve - never did see a chart for the 47N's speed up to 40k+), which is ten thousand feet lower than the 152's. The N's wep lasts only five minutes and takes a whole ten minutes to recharge.  Whereas the 152 lasts fifteen and only five to recharge.  I don't have the old speed chart for the 152 that goes up to 45k, but I'm pretty sure a MIL power N is not quite competitive with a 152 that manages to make a fight last longer than five minutes up at 35-45kft. 

[Lusche]

Sure, 47N looses a lot of it's teeth when wep runs out. My post was merely a warning to the prevalent simplifying thinking "Ta152>20K = fastest thing around". I have seen a few 152 drivers been killed by that

On a general note: Most players aren't used at all to fighting at altitudes above 20k. It's very much a different beast (with a lot more of thinking and pre-planning your moves). Even slight judgement errors and failures in keeping E can quickly result in ending up a very unfavorably situation, no matter how superior your plane is. Much more than at lower altitudes.

[moot]

Could you use your trainer superpowers and snatch the old speed/climb chart for the 152 that went up to 40k+?  And/or same for the N?

[Lusche]

Could you use your trainer superpowers and snatch the old speed/climb chart for the 152 that went up to 40k+?  And/or same for the N?

I'm afraid that chart may be older than my AH existance... never seen such a thing.

[Lusche]

Widewing did some tests to compare 152 and 47N at 40k:

Back in November, I did some 40k speed runs comparing the Ta 152 and P-47N.

At 40,000 feet, the Ta 152 could reach 453 mph. That's mighty fast. However, the P-47N was able to attain 462 mph. The 152 required WEP, but the P-47N was above FTH, so WEP provided no increase in power.

Adding to the difference was the far superior acceleration and climb of the P-47N above 30k. The 152 required a 50 mile run to reach max speed from 400 mph, but the P-47 needed just 30 miles (and was 9 mph faster). Maneuvering was tested subjectively. I found the Jug far more stable and a much better turner, especially as it could utilize flaps very easily and efficiently.

At 450 mph @ 40k, I executed a zoom climb in each. The P-47's greater mass carried it about 1,000 feet higher.

From 43,000 feet, I dived each to its maximum speed. In Mach, the results were:
Ta 152: 0.88 Mach
P-47N: 0.91 Mach

Both recovered without drama using trim tabs.

My regards,

Widewing

[moot]

I'm afraid that chart may be older than my AH existance... never seen such a thing.

Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to retrieve this intel from HTC..

[Lusche]

Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to retrieve this intel from HTC..

You are overestimating my "powers". I have no more than you in that regard.

[33Vortex]

Edit: Do not have the old chart, my mistake.

Also have aquired a set of books about the 190 and 152 specifically at the Aero Friedrichshafen Messe today that has revealed a lot of information I was previously unaware of. Fascinating stuff!

 

[moot]

You are overestimating my "powers". I have no more than you in that regard.

You should know that we're holding a snail nursery hostage until you return with this info.  Make no attempt to alert HTC to this secure communication channel, or these precious gastropods will meet the direst white wine-fueled fate!