Fw190

[Plazus]

You should know that we're holding a snail nursery hostage until you return with this info.  Make no attempt to alert HTC to this secure communication channel, or these precious gastropods will meet the direst white wine-fueled fate!

[BnZs]

Grace and firepower.

Turn rate and E-retention under Gs?

[Krusty]

All 190s bleed E horribly. I think the 152 as much as the Anton (subjective opinion). I like the 152 and I think the aspect I like is ... to use Lusche's term... "grace".

That doesn't mean she's graceful to fly, with her slip indicator bouncing left and right, the tail flopping all over the sky and the horrible wing wobble when coming out of a roll. However there's something nice about the plane. Maybe it's just the way it looks, or the "what might have been" aspect of its WW2 history.

[BnZs]

All 190s bleed E horribly. I think the 152 as much as the Anton (subjective opinion). I like the 152 and I think the aspect I like is ... to use Lusche's term... "grace".

That doesn't mean she's graceful to fly, with her slip indicator bouncing left and right, the tail flopping all over the sky and the horrible wing wobble when coming out of a roll. However there's something nice about the plane. Maybe it's just the way it looks, or the "what might have been" aspect of its WW2 history.

Not the 152. It is actually a PITA attempting to slow one down with high-G barrel rolls and throttle cutting. Its efficient wing allows it to sustain a very respectable turn rate of 19.3dps, better than many aircraft with light wingloading, including the P-47 series, P-51, P-38L, and all F4Us except the -4. (Mosq Data)

[Krusty]

The 152 has a sustained turn radius of 800 feet according to MOSQ's data.

Not exactly a great turner. You compare it to the P51D and the P47N, two of the worst-turning planes in the game 

Only every US ride can drop a notch of flaps and suddenly gain 20% less turn radius, where the 152 just increases chances of tail sliding vertically into the earth, butt-first.


Definitely NOT the best manuvering of the lot, and yet there's still something elegant about it. I think it's how the nose slopes up to the canopy and back down to the vertical stab. Up and down, almost aerodynamic.

[BnZs]

The 152 has a sustained turn radius of 800 feet according to MOSQ's data.

Not exactly a great turner. You compare it to the P51D and the P47N, two of the worst-turning planes in the game 

Only every US ride can drop a notch of flaps and suddenly gain 20% less turn radius, where the 152 just increases chances of tail sliding vertically into the earth, butt-first.


Definitely NOT the best manuvering of the lot, and yet there's still something elegant about it. I think it's how the nose slopes up to the canopy and back down to the vertical stab. Up and down, almost aerodynamic.

Radius is not the sole arbiter of turn performance.

Yes, radius is poor, but the sustained turn rate advantage will allow it to come around and get on the the tail of a P-51D, , P-47, or even low-E F4U who simply tries to drop flaps and go about in an endless circular nose-to-tail chase. The 152 will fare rather more poorly if the the bandit reverses his direction to initiate a scissors and the 152 accepts, however it can 1. Use a vertical maneuver to refuse the scissors and attempt to re-establish the nose-to-tail chase or 2. Simply take the crossing snapshot the bandit exposes himself to on the turn reversal. Have Snailman demonstrate this principle to you sometime.

[moot]

You guys must be flying a different plane.  It's not a PITA and is the best handling Fw.

[Lusche]

It's not a PITA and is the best handling Fw.

You are used to it. Fly it again as a average, casual AH pilot that takes a 152 up only every once in a while. And enjoy your way down to the ground with your tail first

[moot]

But that's true for any plane.. Yeah, the 152's on the worse end of the flakiness spectrum, but if you approach it correctly, not trying to fly it like a spitfire, the same way you don't approach a Spit14 like it were a zero, it's really not that osbcure a flight envelope.  It holds aileron authority further than the other 190s, has one of the best rudders in the game, and is at least as well behaved as the other 190s until you push it too far.  I don't think pushing it too far is a problem with the 152, since in 190s you have no use for their post-departure regime.  Anyone who's flown 190s will know to stay skirting the safe end of departure.  The same applies to the 152, and not only that but the 152 is a better plane inside the envelope.
If you pay attention to the sideslip instruments and/or have taken 15min exploring what triggers tailspins, it's really not esoteric anymore.

The only real PITA is sluggish control response.  I don't see how the 152's hard to airbrake with compared to the other Fw.  It's not only better at it, it's more useful once you've slowed it down that way. The other 190s' "user friendly" nearly automatic self-correction mean they simply refuse to cooperate if you try to airbrake with them.. They simply won't hold sideways.

[BnZs]

You guys must be flying a different plane.  It's not a PITA and is the best handling Fw.

I said it was a PITA trying to make it dump speed. This sort of E-retention is mostly a good thing though.

[moot]

.. Can you specify?  It's the easiest to dump speed in.

[BnZs]

.. Can you specify?  It's the easiest to dump speed in.

Starting at say 400mph IAS, if I chop throttle and begin doing barrel-rolls or other maneuvers, it seems like I can "pull into the black" for a long time compared to the Dora, where if you chop throttle and commence pulling Gs you get slow right quick. This is the efficient high-aspect ratio wing at work. You probably mean it has enough rudder authority to do a helluva a side-slip at more moderate speeds, correct?

[moot]

Yep, I don't see any reason to exclude the rudder from this sort of evaluation/comparison.

[BnZs]

Yep, I don't see any reason to exclude the rudder from this sort of evaluation/comparison.

Well, I was citing how reluctant the 152 is to bleed speed under G-loading as an example of its E-retention as compared to the 190s...this is of course one of its most beneficial traits 90% of the time.

[moot]

Excluding the rudder just seems like loading the question. The gist was that the 152's a pita to shed speed with, e.g. in barrel rolls. In fact the 152 is by quite a bit the most capable at this, and while you can get yourself in deep poop if you do it wrong, it's also the easier one to deal with in this maneuver.  The D9 might be dead simple to control, but its sharp departure takes more care and experience to exploit successfully in a dogfight than the 152's comparatively soft departure and post-departure aileron and rudder control.
Where the 152 clearly can't compete is in fast scissors. The only way to pull it off is to snap roll them but the D9 and A5 can both do as much.