So many targets, so little ammo(horde sighting)

[The Fugitive]

Greetings<S>.  I believe a lot of people join missions of any size to be part of a team or some focused effort than just flying around being fodder.  Some missions are more popular than others.  Some missions are scratched for nobody joining, sometimes its 20+.  It doesnt matter if you take the base or not, a team effort was made.  There are no AcesHigh generals to dictate what is appropriate, so there are just a bunch of guys teaming up.  Questioning or wondering why these large missions happen seem naive.  See ya out there. 

It's very easy to see "WHY" these large missions happen..... poor leadership and/or selfishness !

The selfishness comes for some of these big squad that have to show everyone in the game....like this really matters... that their squad is awesome and and can take any undefended base they want  

Poor leadership on the other hand is just wasting resources. We'll use the port mentioned as an example. 3 guys can take a port, two drop bombs on the VH and then deack and the third runs in troops. I use to figure a 70% hit rate (yes I knew the hit percentage my squad ran, also to death rate of how many made it to target as well as a number of other anal stats I used to build our missions) for our pilots so with 2 each caring 2 1k one would miss with one bomb, still plenty to do the job. If a mission is posted and only 5 guys show, the target is either a VB or a Port, if 20+ show the target is a VB, a port, AND a small field.... NOT everyone on a port ! It's just a waste of resources!

If 3 guys can do in a port, and you have 20+ what do the other 17+ do for fun? Not to mention the 5-10 guys that might have upped to defend the port but decide dieing to a horde isn't the fun they are looking for tonight. So by making a "horde" mission you are spoiling the fun of the 17 slowest guys + the defenders, about 80% of the people in your area. WTG !  

Thats why big squads are bad for the game. IF, and this is a big if, the big squads took it upon them selves to spread themselves out, dismantled the horde themselves it could bring about much better game play for everyone. Will they do it... I doubt it, they are too busy slapping themselves on the back for how good a squad they have to notice that they are a major contributing factor to the problem.

[thndregg]

 3 guys can take a port, two drop bombs on the VH and then deack and the third runs in troops.

In a perfect "Barney" world, yes. When (yes, WHEN) we are seen coming, the first guy gets on the horn and says "Help at P##!!" How do you then counter all the training-wheelie wirbles that run profusely out of the VH before it's down with just 3 guys? No, I'll come prepared, thank you very much. Plenty of warning is on the map already. The opposition has plenty of time while WE are climbing out to muster a response to stop us. Plenty of my posted missions have failed simply because the opposition was observant and effective in stopping us. To that, I <S> you.

[Steve]

In a perfect "Barney" world, yes. When (yes, WHEN) we are seen coming, the first guy gets on the horn and says "Help at P##!!" How do you then counter all the training-wheelie wirbles that run profusely out of the VH before it's down with just 3 guys? No, I'll come prepared, thank you very much. Plenty of warning is on the map already. The opposition has plenty of time while WE are climbing out to muster a response to stop us. Plenty of my posted missions have failed simply because the opposition was observant and effective in stopping us. To that, I <S> you.

It's your $15.00 dude. Have fun your way. If gathering your big gang together and taking bases is fun for you, have at it. Unless someone is blatantly griefing, I don't see how anyone can  logically try to dictate game play style to others.  YMMV

[REVRAND]

So your saying its ok to horde and overwhelm a VB with 20+ guys and the heck with anyone on the opposing team as long as YOUR having fun? Thats the point we try to make with you thickheads. If you attack two bases with the same 20+ guys you create two fronts and two places to defend for the apposing players. With numbers not so over whelming you may see more defence, there by creating more FUN for MORE people. The idea in a game is for EVERYONE to have fun.

Hey Fugitive do you really think I care if Rooks or Knit's have FUN................LMAO! .........It's all about the BISH having FUN! 




PS- ^^^^^^TOTALLY AGREE WITH YA ON THAT ONE STEVE^^^^^^^^^!

[Dadsguns]

We'll use the port mentioned as an example. 3 guys can take a port, two drop bombs on the VH and then deack and the third runs in troops.

That would work as a text book example with NO defenders, however if even 1 gv made it out this example goes out the window. 
To be honest with you, the term taking a "undefended base" is a poor excuse of someone not willing to defend it.  Why is that?
Will you die, probably.  Could you turn it around and save it, probably. 
If there isn't anyone to defend the base, is it the takers fault?  No. 
Sometimes all it takes is people willing to defend, but we all know what that sacrifice means = dying for it.  Some people don't want to defend because it will lower their precious score.  Some do defend, and are successful at it.  Others don't and end up here on the whining boards.

[FALCONWING]

It's very easy to see "WHY" these large missions happen..... poor leadership and/or selfishness !

The selfishness comes for some of these big squad that have to show everyone in the game....like this really matters... that their squad is awesome and and can take any undefended base they want  

Poor leadership on the other hand is just wasting resources. We'll use the port mentioned as an example. 3 guys can take a port, two drop bombs on the VH and then deack and the third runs in troops. I use to figure a 70% hit rate (yes I knew the hit percentage my squad ran, also to death rate of how many made it to target as well as a number of other anal stats I used to build our missions) for our pilots so with 2 each caring 2 1k one would miss with one bomb, still plenty to do the job. If a mission is posted and only 5 guys show, the target is either a VB or a Port, if 20+ show the target is a VB, a port, AND a small field.... NOT everyone on a port ! It's just a waste of resources!

If 3 guys can do in a port, and you have 20+ what do the other 17+ do for fun? Not to mention the 5-10 guys that might have upped to defend the port but decide dieing to a horde isn't the fun they are looking for tonight. So by making a "horde" mission you are spoiling the fun of the 17 slowest guys + the defenders, about 80% of the people in your area. WTG !  

Thats why big squads are bad for the game. IF, and this is a big if, the big squads took it upon them selves to spread themselves out, dismantled the horde themselves it could bring about much better game play for everyone. Will they do it... I doubt it, they are too busy slapping themselves on the back for how good a squad they have to notice that they are a major contributing factor to the problem.

Lets say for one second I agree with your premise...that missions are bad for the game...and the people who spend their time organizing them are bad people (selfish/clueless/proud) <-- your words

Then why would the solution possibly be expected to arise from THEM changing their behaviors???  Shouldn't the solution be that AWESOME people like you organize other AWESOME people and oppose them???  Oh wait...you and other lone wolve fiter types don't possess the charisma, leadership ability or understand human psyche enough to do it....or you just don't REALLY care enough to inconvenience yourself to spend the time...

OR....MAYBE YOU DON'T GET IT???

maybe there is fun in accomplishing an objective successfully???

Tell you what...you pick your 5 squaddies and try to take a port that I and 2 other squaddies defend against...let me know when you wish this to occur...this port in question did not have a gv spawn so hope you got a good goon pilot

Man up!!! Can't wait to hear from you...if you don't contact me I'll expect you to stop the ridiculous postings that demonstrate a COMPLETE and UTTER lack of understanding of the game...

[The Fugitive]

That would work as a text book example with NO defenders, however if even 1 gv made it out this example goes out the window. 
To be honest with you, the term taking a "undefended base" is a poor excuse of someone not willing to defend it.  Why is that?
Will you die, probably.  Could you turn it around and save it, probably. 
If there isn't anyone to defend the base, is it the takers fault?  No. 
Sometimes all it takes is people willing to defend, but we all know what that sacrifice means = dying for it.  Some people don't want to defend because it will lower their precious score.  Some do defend, and are successful at it.  Others don't and end up here on the whining boards.

I could take VB's and ports all night with 3 guys, with Im sure an 80% success rate. I did point out that if 5 guys join a mission you hit a VB or port, this gives you two extra guys with bombs just in case. The point is you don't need 20+ people to do it.

Dadsgun you can honestly say you would have fun being one of two of three guys trying to defend all night against a group of 20+ hitting base after base? where if the "horde" split apart a bit and challenged themselves by working a couple bases at the same time due to having 20+ people wouldn't be more fun for everyone?

Hey Fugitive do you really think I care if Rooks or Knit's have FUN................LMAO! .........It's all about the BISH having FUN! 




PS- ^^^^^^TOTALLY AGREE WITH YA ON THAT ONE STEVE^^^^^^^^^!

I suppose your the A hole that after a fun night of drinking LETS his buddy drive himself home.... ya your a real fun guy  

Lets say for one second I agree with your premise...that missions are bad for the game...and the people who spend their time organizing them are bad people (selfish/clueless/proud) <-- your words

Then why would the solution possibly be expected to arise from THEM changing their behaviors???  Shouldn't the solution be that AWESOME people like you organize other AWESOME people and oppose them???  Oh wait...you and other lone wolve fiter types don't possess the charisma, leadership ability or understand human psyche enough to do it....or you just don't REALLY care enough to inconvenience yourself to spend the time...

OR....MAYBE YOU DON'T GET IT???

maybe there is fun in accomplishing an objective successfully???

Tell you what...you pick your 5 squaddies and try to take a port that I and 2 other squaddies defend against...let me know when you wish this to occur...this port in question did not have a gv spawn so hope you got a good goon pilot

Man up!!! Can't wait to hear from you...if you don't contact me I'll expect you to stop the ridiculous postings that demonstrate a COMPLETE and UTTER lack of understanding of the game...

I never said that !!! Missions are the bread and butter of squad operations !!! The point of having a squad is flying together and accomplishing a goal...capture bases, stop attacks, even win the war, can we agree with that?

The "horde missions" is whats bad. Honestly how many BOPs would it take to capture a port? Certainly not 20+ ! If you need that many, you should spend more time in the TA than the mains.  There is nothing wrong with missions !!! How many times do I have to say that !! 10 guys in a mission can take a small field, you add 4 more to "make sure", the other 5+ hit the nearest VB that spawns to the small fields you are hitting.

Now we have two fights going, even if you only have a few defenders for each they feel they have a chance to defend. Maybe they do and blunt your attack, you regroup, reassess and reattack. Wheres the fun in the first 10 guys into a base flatten everything and the other ten just circle for landing  Challenge yourself, challenge your squad. ANYBODY with 20 newbis can take a base, only a skilled group could do it like I'm proposing.... are you and your buds up for the challenge, or can you only steamroll with 3 to 1 numbers?

[Lusche]

Then why would the solution possibly be expected to arise from THEM changing their behaviors???  Shouldn't the solution be that AWESOME people like you organize other AWESOME people and oppose them???  Oh wait...you and other lone wolve fiter types don't possess the charisma, leadership ability or understand human psyche enough to do it....or you just don't REALLY care enough to inconvenience yourself to spend the time...

Usually i'm trying to stay out of these kind of threads, but...

Several times tonight Rook's were attacked by Bish missions. Many of them NOE,  and friggin HUGE.  How easy do you think is it to muster enough defenders to defend vs such a 30+ players mission? "Psychology", "Leadership" or "charisma" don't help. It's not that everybody is sitting in the tower waiting for this. And if you don't get enough defenders withing 2-3 mins, you can basically forget it. The last missions invariably smashed all hangars first.
Two or three times Rooks were able to muster a defence. What happened? The battle immediately died. 5 Mins later another field was swarmed in a totally different location. Within 2h hours, I witnessed maybe like 20 attacks. Each time resistance got serious, the battle died immediately. Persistence was only shown when local numbers were extremely lopsided.

The last battle after reset on Baltic: Bish attacking A35 en mass. After some time, it was clear the base couldn't be captured immediately, Bish were starting to get driven back towards A19. Guess what happened? Within 5mins all enemies were gone. None upped to continue attack, none upped to prevent Rooks getting towards A19, none upped to defend that base. A few mins later: Bish NOE A45.

[Dadsguns]

Dadsgun you can honestly say you would have fun being one of two of three guys trying to defend all night against a group of 20+ hitting base after base?

Oh, dont get me wrong, believe me I have paid my dues many times defending against hordes with 2 to 3 guys and sometimes we were succesful at it, sometimes not.  Most of the time if we didnt get any help to add some numbers to the effort we just stuck it out. 
The difference is, we tried, we died, we moved on.  I never came here to complain of anyone else running horde missions and rolling bases espeacially undefended ones, If they got one and we didnt see it we should all feel like we let each other down as a team.  So, you pay attention a little bit more. 

Is it fun, No.  Not when your out numbered and your the only one willing to defend, never is. 
Is it fun if you can get your side rallied around one cause and involved to defend like its your last base.  Magical. 

 

[thndregg]

A while ago I lead a Jug mission. 14 players joined. We had one goon. We climbed out, went over to a V-base. We smashed the hangars, de-acked, cleared out the GV's that made it out. Rooks did indeed <<<CHOOSE TO DEFEND>>> thier V-base from a neighboring airfield. Two Typhoons came over, one of which shot down our only goon. Congratulations. Your base was well defended.

What a concept.

[grizz441]

If they got one and we didnt see it we should all feel like we let each other down as a team.   

Don't most teams have a head coach calling the shots?  Don't most teams have organization and order?  Don't most teams have a common goal they are trying to achieve?  

So lets see, how are 150 players flying the same chess piece a 'team'?  It doesn't embody any of the qualities I mentioned above.  There is no team, just a bunch of pilots constantly logging off and on looking for something to shoot or blow up.  It's complete anarchy.

^^^
Why the 'Win the War' mentality is laughable.

[minke]

Usually i'm trying to stay out of these kind of threads, but...

Several times tonight Rook's were attacked by Bish missions. Many of them NOE,  and friggin HUGE.  How easy do you think is it to muster enough defenders to defend vs such a 30+ players mission? "Psychology", "Leadership" or "charisma" don't help. It's not that everybody is sitting in the tower waiting for this. And if you don't get enough defenders withing 2-3 mins, you can basically forget it. The last missions invariably smashed all hangars first.
Two or three times Rooks were able to muster a defence. What happened? The battle immediately died. 5 Mins later another field was swarmed in a totally different location. Within 2h hours, I witnessed maybe like 20 attacks. Each time resistance got serious, the battle died immediately. Persistence was only shown when local numbers were extremely lopsided.

The last battle after reset on Baltic: Bish attacking A35 en mass. After some time, it was clear the base couldn't be captured immediately, Bish were starting to get driven back towards A19. Guess what happened? Within 5mins all enemies were gone. None upped to continue attack, none upped to prevent Rooks getting towards A19, none upped to defend that base. A few mins later: Bish NOE A45.

I was part of the second wave of 110's in that failed mission. The first wave was seperate and at alt,so there was enough warning to the defenders. That said there was still very few uppers,the numbers only rose when the first gutsy defenders started killing us. It was THEN your side woke up. I agree there were too many attackers and was shaking my head that we hadn't taken the base. I bagged two kills,chewed up town,turned round and saw 5 or 6 freindlies left, had about 20 rounds left,so ran home to momma  

[moot]

Don't you guys find playing a multiplayer game and minimizing the multiplayer action absurd?

[Dadsguns]

Don't most teams have a head coach calling the shots?  Don't most teams have organization and order?  Don't most teams have a common goal they are trying to achieve?  

So lets see, how are 150 players flying the same chess piece a 'team'?  It doesn't embody any of the qualities I mentioned above.  There is no team, just a bunch of pilots constantly logging off and on looking for something to shoot or blow up.  It's complete anarchy.

^^^
Why the 'Win the War' mentality is laughable.

Grizz, the win the war isnt the mentality, its the result. 
You can look at it from many perspectives, but for me, I look at it just as I do the military and joint forces, there are the Army, Air Force, Navy etc. etc. in joint military operations, we have squads that are totally different and play or have tactics different than another, yet we are all like minded in logistics, tactics, having the "what needs to happen next" chess game mentality, when our team is thinking the same way but going about it in different ways, isnt that still a team effort just like in the military when combined in a joint force?   We have no generals, admirals, but for the most part most are aware what needs to happen and get it done.

[falcon23]

Fugitive,you need to keep your STRAWMAN arguments to yourself,nothing personal.You and others in previous threads keep saying the BIG SQUADS are running all these missions which you say are bad for game-play,hence you come to the conclusion that ALL BIG SQUADS are bad for game-play..While that is a type of propganda you keep choosing to harp on,and I can only assume you keep bringing it up so that some at AH will take notice,( and may I remind you that HITECH as already graced us with his feelings on the subject).That you really need to get a better line..


  It is NOT the big squads running ALL the mission which you people vehemently complain about on here lately..i.e. "HORDE" missions..Anyone on any team can make a mission..
And if someone is NOT having fun watching missions going to take  a base,or do not want to defend against it,and somehow say it is cutting into their "FUN"..Then go somewhere else on the map ...

 If you like having fun furballing,Gv battles,taking bases,It can be found on EVERY MAP..Stop with the "YOU ARENT HAVING FUN MY WAY,SO YOU NEED TO ADJUST THE WAY YOU PLAY" CRAP-OLA...

   If 20 people want to join in a mission and it is fun to them,SO WHAT IS IT TO YOU?? Stop the whining,evidently it is fun,hence the missions keep rolling,FROM EVERY SIDE...

   You guys really need to get off your high horses about trying to define for people who pay their $15,who play within the parameters of the game,what is acceptable and what  is not..


                                        Falcon23