Planes With the Best E Retention

[Slade]

Guys,

Which planes would you say have the best E (energy) retention?

Thanks,

Slade

[moot]

Depends on a couple of things.. e.g. speed range.

[Chalenge]

E retention is not merely dependant upon airframe but also on how the airframe is handled.

[moot]

Two pilots making any same maneuver won't get different E retention. It's the airframe.

[Gianlupo]

Moot, I think Chalenge meant it depends on what type of maneuvers the airplane does, not that it varies from pilot to pilot.

[cobia38]

 hope this helps,pretty much it boils down to wait/drag

Energy available
An aircraft in straight and level flight has:

    * linear momentum — m × v [kg·m/s]
    * kinetic energy (the energy of a body due to its motion) — ½mv² [joules or newton metres (N·m)]; remembering that 'm' in the ½mv² term represents mass
      (Note: normally, the newton metre — the SI unit of moment of force — is not used as the measure of work or energy; however throughout this guide, it is more helpful to express the kinetic energy in the N·m form rather than joules — the N·m and the joule are dimensionally equivalent)
    * gravitational potential energy — in this case, the product of weight in newtons and height gained in metres
    * chemical potential energy in the form of fuel in the tanks
    * air resistance that dissipates some kinetic energy as heat or atmospheric turbulence.

To simplify the text from here on, we will refer to 'gravitational potential energy' as just potential energy and 'chemical potential energy' as just chemical energy.

We can calculate the energy available to the plane cruising:

• at a height of 6500 feet (2000 m)
• and (air distance flown over time)= 97 knots (50 m/s)
• with mass = 400 kg, thus weight = 4000 N
• fuel = 50 litres.

   Then:

• potential energy = weight × height = 4000 × 2000 = 8 million N·m
• kinetic energy = ½mv² = ½ × 400 × 50 × 50 = 500 000 N·m
• momentum = mass × v = 400 × 50 = 20 000 kg·m/s
• chemical energy = 50 litres @ 7.5 million joules = 375 million joules.



Because it is the accumulation of the work done to raise the aircraft 6500 feet, the potential energy is 16 times the kinetic energy, and is obviously an asset that you don't want to dissipate. It is equivalent to 2% of your fuel.

It is always wise to balance a shortage of potential energy with an excess of kinetic energy, and vice versa. For example, if you don't have much height then have some extra speed up your sleeve for manoeuvring or to provide extra time for action in case of engine or wind shear problems. Or if kinetic energy is low (because of flying at lower speeds than normal) make sure you have ample height or, if approaching to land, hold height for as long as possible. The only time to be 'low and slow' is when you are about to touch down.

However, during take-off it is not possible to have an excess of either potential or kinetic energy; thus, take-off is the most critical phase of flight, closely followed by the go-around following an aborted landing approach. Ensure that a safe climb speed is achieved as quickly as possible after becoming airborne — or commencing a go-around — and before the climb-out is actually commenced; see take-off procedure.

[Saxman]

To actually answer Slade's question....

The A-20, F4U, F6F, P-51, P-47, P-38, 190D-9 and 109K-4 all have excellent E-retention.

[Spikes]

My personal picks would be:
F4U, P47, TA152, 109K, 190D, 38.

[Widewing]

One factor not discussed is the illusion of E retention, where it is actually E replenishment. In short, a fighter like the Spit16 sometimes appears to have remarkable E retention. It really doesn't. Just pull off power to idle and you will see that the Spit16 bleeds E like mad. What the Spit16 does have is tremendous acceleration. Its ability to replace or maintain E is spectacular, but it is more of a factor of power loading.

I tested every fighter in the game for level flight linear deceleration. This measures the bleed of speed from 400 mph down to 150 mph by simply chopping the throttle to idle. Spitfires do poorly, as does the Tempest, by the way. F4Us, P-47s and 190s do vastly better. This test does not include E bleed due to the induced drag of maneuvering. That is very difficult to quantify in game.


My regards,

Widewing

[BnZs]

Okay, I've asked it before, and I still don't understand...what is the precise purpose of comparing what amounts to the ballistic coefficient of airplanes with their throttles idled, as opposed to with their engine running, as they tend to be in combat? We aren't shooting the things out of cannons. I've tested zoom climbs, and at the end of the day the Spit16 hangs pretty well with most in the game. If that Spit16 can follow your Jug or Hog into the vertical and shoot, it little matters that the reason is advantageous power loading instead of advantageous mass/drag ratio.

One factor not discussed is the illusion of E retention, where it is actually E replenishment. In short, a fighter like the Spit16 sometimes appears to have remarkable E retention. It really doesn't. Just pull off power to idle and you will see that the Spit16 bleeds E like mad. What the Spit16 does have is tremendous acceleration. Its ability to replace or maintain E is spectacular, but it is more of a factor of power loading.

I tested every fighter in the game for level flight linear deceleration. This measures the bleed of speed from 400 mph down to 150 mph by simply chopping the throttle to idle. Spitfires do poorly, as does the Tempest, by the way. F4Us, P-47s and 190s do vastly better. This test does not include E bleed due to the induced drag of maneuvering. That is very difficult to quantify in game.


My regards,

Widewing

[cobia38]

One factor not discussed is the illusion of E retention, where it is actually E replenishment. In short, a fighter like the Spit16 sometimes appears to have remarkable E retention. It really doesn't. Just pull off power to idle and you will see that the Spit16 bleeds E like mad. What the Spit16 does have is tremendous acceleration. Its ability to replace or maintain E is spectacular, but it is more of a factor of power loading.

I tested every fighter in the game for level flight linear deceleration. This measures the bleed of speed from 400 mph down to 150 mph by simply chopping the throttle to idle. Spitfires do poorly, as does the Tempest, by the way. F4Us, P-47s and 190s do vastly better. This test does not include E bleed due to the induced drag of maneuvering. That is very difficult to quantify in game.


My regards,

Widewing

 

 90 % of the rides cant break 375 mph leval  i want to see a fm2 or huricane ect ect do this
  only way to do it is to dive and then leval at 400 therfor creating a false test platform

[ink]

Here's E retention for ya,  

I took up the Tempest for some killing, I have not flown it very often, I know its one of the fastest, and a BnZ monster, I am used to flying the  Hurri so its quite a bit different then my "ride",

anyways, after a good sortie with 5 killz, my engine gets hit, I look at the map and realize I am over a sector in enemy territory, so I nose down and head towards closest friendly field,  climb at about 1k a min., I get a half sector closer to my field,  at about 10k, the engine dies I level out and coast, speed drops quickly so I figure im gonna half to bail, being a temp I say "screw it" gonna try to make it, so here I am, coasting, I don't remember how long it took but I coasted around 20 miles without losing much alt.  
  I was very impressed with the E holding capabilities, no other plane that I have flown can do that.

[Slade]

Guys,

Great feedback.  You guys answered this from many different points of view.

I learned a lot on this one so far.

Thanks,

Slade   

[Rich46yo]

Im not surprised about the Tempest, and would hate to see anyone confuse it with the Typhoon, "which drops like a rock".

The wings of the Tempest were entirely redesigned for better high Alt. and all around aerodynamics. The radiators as well.

Here, http://hem.passagen.se/chla/tempest.htm , no audio but some original Tempest shots to get you pumped up for the next run. At the bottom is an actual clip of a V1 shoot down by a Tempie. Just follow the prompts to the video page. 

[Lusche]

anyways, after a good sortie with 5 killz, my engine gets hit, I look at the map and realize I am over a sector in enemy territory, so I nose down and head towards closest friendly field,  climb at about 1k a min., I get a half sector closer to my field,  at about 10k, the engine dies I level out and coast, speed drops quickly so I figure im gonna half to bail, being a temp I say "screw it" gonna try to make it, so here I am, coasting, I don't remember how long it took but I coasted around 20 miles without losing much alt.  
  I was very impressed with the E holding capabilities, no other plane that I have flown can do that.

Fly the Ta-152 then. I made it back home to a friendly airfield several times after loosing my radiator (not oil!) to enemy field ack on the deck.
It simply glides like no other prop plane.