Respect Vs Rank

[oceans11]

So , This probably is going to stir up a hornets nest but I am going to give it a shot. A couple of nights ago I was flying with my SQUAD . We had a CV that was under attack that nobody was defending. There was a huge furball / attack under way and most Bish,knights where involved in that Horde. We decided to defend the CV . We had it for about 30 minutes and almost had it saved after a good amount of defending, Maneuvering and out flanking. Suddenly the CV was taken away , pointed into the direction it should not have gone , 6 minutes later the CV was down. When I questioned the person I was basically told to F-Off we out rank you . I Will tell you the HEAD of this squad was involved in this and actually was behind the CV takeover.

Now I am into respect and would never take a CV from anybody rank or no rank. But after being lambasted over the radio and chat i was kinda pushed over the edge.

Has this game gotten to the point where there is no longer respect for anybody?
Has it gotten to the point where LARGE POMPOUS squads rule and the smaller squads no longer count ?

And just to narrow it down . I have become very good friends with people all over this game in all squads. But let me just say I think a select few have had there head so filled up with helium they no longer think before they do !!!

That to me is SAD

[JunkyII]

As a member of a large sqaud, I say not all have problems with others we actually love flying with others and against them, makes fights more interesting with good teamwork on both sides. Was it Jokers Jokers? they so POMPOUS and I own them all 

[oceans11]

As a member of a large sqaud, I say not all have problems with others we actually love flying with others and against them, makes fights more interesting with good teamwork on both sides. Was it Jokers Jokers? they so POMPOUS and I own them all 

Lets just say it was not Rolling thunder

And I think i have flown with you a couple of times and have had good fights.

[WMLute]

What disturbs me are how many of these new squads (2-3yrs old and under) have no clue what so ever how to achieve success without vast numbers.

They need those numbers because so many of them die dumb.

So many of them die dumb because there is nobody in that squad who can train them.

Unfortunately very few of these squads have CO's (or vets) that took the time to learn things like successful tactics, ACM, etc, so there is not much they are going to be able to pass on that is viable and they end up going the route of the hoard.

What you end up with then are large groups of planes flying around capturing undefended bases due to sheer numbers alone and think they have a clue as to what they are doing. (for the most part, they really don't)

Run those same squads up against even numbers and what happens?  Tactics?  Don't work w/o #'s and they die dumb.  ACM?  Ain't got much if any, nobody to teach them.  They end up failing and failing horribly.  After dying dumb a bunch they will then go looking for a nice fat juicy base with no nme at it and hoard/capture it so they can have the illusion that they are "good base takers" and are "winning the war!!!".


Personally I am torn over all of this.
 
On the one hand my k/d ratio loves it.  They can HAVE the base.  I will take my 20+ kills vs. 1-2 (if any) deaths smacking them around and count myself the winner of that exchange.

But when I am in the mood to grab some real estate I get frustrated by the sheer ineptitude that has become the norm in AH.

[oceans11]

What disturbs me are how many of these new squads (2-3yrs old and under) have no clue what so ever how to achieve success without vast numbers.

They need those numbers because so many of them die dumb.

So many of them die dumb because there is nobody in that squad who can train them.

Unfortunately very few of these squads have CO's (or vets) that took the time to learn things like successful tactics, ACM, etc, so there is not much they are going to be able to pass on that is viable and they end up going the route of the hoard.

What you end up with then are large groups of planes flying around capturing undefended bases due to sheer numbers alone and think they have a clue as to what they are doing. (for the most part, they really don't)

Run those same squads up against even numbers and what happens?  Tactics?  Don't work w/o #'s and they die dumb.  ACM?  Ain't got much if any, nobody to teach them.  They end up failing and failing horribly.  After dying dumb a bunch they will then go looking for a nice fat juicy base with no nme at it and hoard/capture it so they can have the illusion that they are "good base takers" and are "winning the war!!!".


Personally I am torn over all of this.
 
On the one hand my k/d ratio loves it.  They can HAVE the base.  I will take my 20+ kills vs. 1-2 (if any) deaths smacking them around and count myself the winner of that exchange.

But when I am in the mood to grab some real estate I get frustrated by the sheer ineptitude that has become the norm in AH.

WMLute. I can agree. I fly with a veteran crew. Me being the youngest of maybe 1.5 yrs. The rest of my Squad are 10 yrs Plus.
The CO, Xo ETC all are ex military and bring that respect into the game. And yes while it is only a game it gives you an Idea On how people are
treated in the real world by my squaddies. It is a good feeling to know you will get that from them.
I agree with you on the point about numbers.
We are a squad of about 12,however most of the times we have maybe 5 or 6 that can log on a squad night.
We have had successfull base captures with only our little crew. Its hard but the reward at the end is an earned one.
Not a massive attack with shear numbers and no skill

So back to the CV issue, Yes I got extremely frustrated, and to boot they have the nerve the recite a pre scripted excuse.
We are just following the rules
we out rank you ...

[Larry]

To funny 



BTW did you ask them if they wants to meet ''the five families''?

[Masherbrum]

So , This probably is going to stir up a hornets nest but I am going to give it a shot. A couple of nights ago I was flying with my SQUAD . We had a CV that was under attack that nobody was defending. There was a huge furball / attack under way and most Bish,knights where involved in that Horde. We decided to defend the CV . We had it for about 30 minutes and almost had it saved after a good amount of defending, Maneuvering and out flanking. Suddenly the CV was taken away , pointed into the direction it should not have gone , 6 minutes later the CV was down. When I questioned the person I was basically told to F-Off we out rank you . I Will tell you the HEAD of this squad was involved in this and actually was behind the CV takeover.

Now I am into respect and would never take a CV from anybody rank or no rank. But after being lambasted over the radio and chat i was kinda pushed over the edge.

Has this game gotten to the point where there is no longer respect for anybody?
Has it gotten to the point where LARGE POMPOUS squads rule and the smaller squads no longer count ?

And just to narrow it down . I have become very good friends with people all over this game in all squads. But let me just say I think a select few have had there head so filled up with helium they no longer think before they do !!!

That to me is SAD

Unfortunately Oceans11 some folks in this game think the world owes them something.   Don't even sweat it, let them think they are the "elite desktop admiral."    They also think they "deserve respect", but were raised to be selfish and expect to be respected.   

They are not worth it.    IIRC, you're with luttrel's outfit, good bunch.   

[Rollins]

Worrying about rank is as productive as betting on what color paint dries faster.

Not only boring but dumb as sh*t. 

You're worried about rank, check your shorts, tiny.  Tantamount to subversive behavior for personal gain. 

[The Fugitive]

What disturbs me are how many of these new squads (2-3yrs old and under) have no clue what so ever how to achieve success without vast numbers.

They need those numbers because so many of them die dumb.

So many of them die dumb because there is nobody in that squad who can train them.

Unfortunately very few of these squads have CO's (or vets) that took the time to learn things like successful tactics, ACM, etc, so there is not much they are going to be able to pass on that is viable and they end up going the route of the hoard.

What you end up with then are large groups of planes flying around capturing undefended bases due to sheer numbers alone and think they have a clue as to what they are doing. (for the most part, they really don't)

Run those same squads up against even numbers and what happens?  Tactics?  Don't work w/o #'s and they die dumb.  ACM?  Ain't got much if any, nobody to teach them.  They end up failing and failing horribly.  After dying dumb a bunch they will then go looking for a nice fat juicy base with no nme at it and hoard/capture it so they can have the illusion that they are "good base takers" and are "winning the war!!!".


Personally I am torn over all of this.
 
On the one hand my k/d ratio loves it.  They can HAVE the base.  I will take my 20+ kills vs. 1-2 (if any) deaths smacking them around and count myself the winner of that exchange.

But when I am in the mood to grab some real estate I get frustrated by the sheer ineptitude that has become the norm in AH.

I agree 100% it is getting worst everyday.

Oceans11, honor is a thing of the past in video games. I'm one that continues to harp on it but its a sad state of affairs right now. Years ago I flew and met people and got to know them. Sometimes we would meet outside the game at airshows and museums and such, and they were the people you know....alto they didn't always look like you thought they did  Today, I think I'd be afraid of meeting half the people in this game. I have my squadmates, and number of "friends" I think would be great to meet face to face, but the rest of these "personas" we have flying around scare me for their plain old stupidity, or the arrogance that would force me to just rip their heads off to stuff up their asses! Most of todays players are just that A-holes with a capital A

Worrying about rank is as productive as betting on what color paint dries faster.

Not only boring but dumb as sh*t. 

You're worried about rank, check your shorts, tiny.  Tantamount to subversive behavior for personal gain. 

Time to re-read what he said, he couldn't care less about rank it was the "attitude" of the ranking player that ticked him off. After he and his squad worked for over 30 minutes to save a CV this idiot with a higher rank took the CV in and in 6 minutes had it sunk. What really make this idiot really stupid is he most likely turned the CV back to maintain the furball/fight, instead due to his stupidity he ENDED the furball/fight. Morons like this we do not need running things.

[oceans11]

Unfortunately Oceans11 some folks in this game think the world owes them something.   Don't even sweat it, let them think they are the "elite desktop admiral."    They also think they "deserve respect", but were raised to be selfish and expect to be respected.   

They are not worth it.    IIRC, you're with luttrel's outfit, good bunch.   

thank you Masherbrum he is a good guy 

[oceans11]

To funny 



BTW did you ask them if they wants to meet ''the five families''?

not really Larry .
but that would be an interesing squad

The five families " we can meet in an undisclosed place and plot our take over

 

[Rollins]

Time to re-read what he said, he couldn't care less about rank it was the "attitude" of the ranking player that ticked him off.

They seem to follow each other.  Hence my disdain for the silliness of rank altogether.

There are a few exceptions.

[Bark0]

Has this game gotten to the point where there is no longer respect for anybody?
Has it gotten to the point where LARGE POMPOUS squads rule and the smaller squads no longer count ?

Agreed 110%
People In the Game will get crazy about who they are and what they do. So far in the game I have not seen anyone so crazy about their score that they will do anything...even shade vulch to get their rank up.

As for your second Sentence I do agree Entirely about what you have said.about 2 months ago I decided to run a squad of my own...Just to get a better feel of the game and what it is like to be a leader.

4 weeks into the squad and Recruitng messages every hour on country...Only me...a friend and another person.
Because of this I asked multiple squads on our country to do "Join ops" or "tune to our channel" I will not point names but People did not Want anything to do with our squad. Since I have joined this game I have been in 7 squads...So I have  good Idea how to run one. But still No One Joins. People think this is a N00b squad and they won't last more than 2 weeks.

After an FSO we did last week I was fed up with this. We flew B-25's and Only 3 out of the 7-8 people showed up that me...a friend and another person. so as we took off we linked up to another squadron much larger ( Maybe 15-20) and Headed off to the target. Our escorts arrived and to my Surprise Only Escorted to the Larger squadron...Only Tuned to the larger squadron and only Payed attention to the larger squadron.
 
After a wile I thought "Ok cool we are otd and will attack the target first and be Secreat..then Metioning "Target destroyed by Us...Move on to next target."" Nope. It seems as though Our enemys were OTD and Got us not even on our 3rd pass. I was Mad. Escorts Payed no attention to the small squadron...This Is just downright Dis-Respectful and Wrong.

i quote HiTech

MEGA Squads are Bad for the game

[ROC]

After an FSO we did last week I was fed up with this. We flew B-25's and Only 3 out of the 7-8 people showed up that me...a friend and another person. so as we took off we linked up to another squadron much larger ( Maybe 15-20) and Headed off to the target. Our escorts arrived and to my Surprise Only Escorted to the Larger squadron...Only Tuned to the larger squadron and only Payed attention to the larger squadron.

hehe ok, this one is no charge BarkO.

It's the fault of FSO that 3 of your 8 guys showed up?  No, it's yours.  Argue that all you want, if you run a squad, you take the fall.  You throw your guys under the bus when it goes bad, you won't last long with any credibility as a squad leader.  Were you flying With the larger squad?  You expect to fly off on your own and get personal escorts?  Had you been in tight formation with that larger squad, guess what, you would have been escorted    Coming from a tried and true Escort guy for so many years, when bombers fly off on their own, they are assigned BAIT status.  So far, You've been in 7 squad so you must know how they work, yet you can't form one, no one listens to you, you don't get with the escorts on THEIR assigned channel and it's someone elses problem?

You didn't provide a full strength squad, that means You make the sacrifices and adjust to those who did. 

Try this next time.  Your guys don't show up as they committed to.  You make the effort to get with someone else, and don't be surprised if they don't completely break down their plans and strategy to accommodate you.  You already hosed the plans by not providing what you committed to, don't expect everyone to adjust to you now, as you cannot be counted on.  Life is hard.  They are not going to reconstruct their orders counting on you to do your part, you haven't proven that you can or will do your part. 

That's FSO, get used to it, get over it, it's been said before that these events are not for everyone.  2 choices.  Pay attention and learn from what I just told you, or don't.  Neither one matters to me, but 1 will be beneficial to you.  You entered this conversation confusing respect with attention, that is a bad idea.  You didn't get attention in that FSO frame, you gave no reason to respect you.  Consider.  That actually applies to this whole concept of respect vs rank, by the way.

Escorts Payed no attention to the small squadron...This Is just downright Dis-Respectful and Wrong.

  Maybe, just maybe, there is more to it than you thought.  Personally, I've been escort on situations exactly as you explained.  You are absolutely correct in the first part, I payed no attention to the small squadron. Size played no part, participation was 100%.  Oh yes, they howled to the moon about being ignored, as they insisted we tune to them and bring them up to speed, they complained they couldn't keep up, they complained they didn't know where we were going, they they they....well..they died.

[Steve]

What disturbs me are how many of these new squads (2-3yrs old and under) have no clue what so ever how to achieve success without vast numbers.

Although I don't have a problem with this it does sort of connect to something I find amusing. Some squads  equate their squad rank and their ability to steamroll with numbers to skill in the game. They might be skillful in gathering a large group of guys together, I guess. As has been said, quantity has a quality all its' own.   Last night, a guy name MrMeaty was talking smack about his squad being ranked 13. I don't know the guy, but it was really amusing. 

These mega squads are adept at using overwhelming numbers to accomplish their goal. Perhaps there is a certain skill in achieving this kind of organization. I'm sure within the horde there are skilled ack killers, hanger busters and building slayers.

The amusing part to me is that some members of these mega squads will talk smack here on the boards and in game but if their group ran up againt a squad of "fighter" sticks, they'd get their arses handed to them lickity split.