Skin Request(s)

[AWwrgwy]

Wait, so 2 planes were painted like that, deemed unsuited, and repainted back??

There was only one specifically painted aircraft for every skin we have in game.  There was only one "Big Beautiful Doll" WZ*I flown by Col. John Landers in the 78th FG.

We don't have generic skins.

On the other hand, the two P-38s were kind of one-offs.   



wrongway

[Krusty]

That is my point. There are camo standards, styles, themes, etc, that are applied to an entire squadron, wing, or even entire theater of operations...


Then there's 2 field-painted planes that proved unsuited for the task and were restored to previous markings.

How long did it take before they were proven "unsuited"? How many sorties at night did they fly? Where did they fly, was it even into hostile territory, or were they flown in tests first? Did they ever even run into any foes to shoot at?

They are basically day fighters being flown at night with no radar. Only ground radar and radio directions were used to point them at targets, and even in the densest of areas (over London during the night bombing) this was a futile effort.

Now put them in the pacific with 100's of square miles to patrol, no local radar, no local reports, just lone planes patrolling at night looking for something to kill....

Yeah. I'm really skeptical as to their "trial by fire" (combat). So unless there's a lot more info to back up the story on these birds, they're probably no more valid than state-side training units, or test schemes, or experimental prototype schemes.

[lyric1]

Hate to point this out but are you not using a double standard here In this thread? When in another thread that I had started you did not seem to take issue with a single black F4u-d so long as it was armed?



http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,255962.0.html

 Re: Can these 2 qualify?
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2009, 06:49:22 PM » Quote 

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No unarmed or non-combat skins are allowed. The c-47 is out because it has pre-war markings and was only used state-side.

The F4u "Sally" should never have been included in this game. It has no guns. It was unarmed and did not see combat. Further, in-game it's garrishly pure white (blech) whereas it's supposed to be aluminum. The black version, if it's the same plane repainted (I'm unclear about that just reading the captions by the photos) should not be allowed for the same reasons (non-combat, unarmed plane). However if the black one was armed and did fly that way, then there's no reason it shouldn't be included.
 

[B4Buster]

Picture said they did fly a number of sorties. now not trying to start an argument here, but I know at the time my computer was having issues, and Larry very kindly did the research for me. I'm assuming they didn't perform their job as well as the 8 AF brass thought they would during their intruder missions so they pulled the operation.

[Fencer51]

That is my point. There are camo standards, styles, themes, etc, that are applied to an entire squadron, wing, or even entire theater of operations...

Just to clarify here..

Krusty, you are now arguing that ALLIED planes should only be accepted if they are like other alliied planes?

[Serenity]

That is my point. There are camo standards, styles, themes, etc, that are applied to an entire squadron, wing, or even entire theater of operations...


Then there's 2 field-painted planes that proved unsuited for the task and were restored to previous markings.

How long did it take before they were proven "unsuited"? How many sorties at night did they fly? Where did they fly, was it even into hostile territory, or were they flown in tests first? Did they ever even run into any foes to shoot at?

They are basically day fighters being flown at night with no radar. Only ground radar and radio directions were used to point them at targets, and even in the densest of areas (over London during the night bombing) this was a futile effort.

Now put them in the pacific with 100's of square miles to patrol, no local radar, no local reports, just lone planes patrolling at night looking for something to kill....

Yeah. I'm really skeptical as to their "trial by fire" (combat). So unless there's a lot more info to back up the story on these birds, they're probably no more valid than state-side training units, or test schemes, or experimental prototype schemes.

The problem with this is, the point of the custom skins is to have something NOT like everyone else, something unique. Hell, as long as it saw combat, the wackier it is, the better IMHO!

[Krusty]

Fencer, you twist my words, but i see the irony you're trying to get at. No that's nto what I meant.

Lyric: I hope they remove Sally from the game. At the time I didn't understand it was 2 paint jobs from the same plane. Hence I called it "the black one". Neither fits into the game.

Serenity (and this is a reply to Fencer and Lyric as well) I'm not saying "don't do unique and interesting skins" -- I'm saying "don't do the most bizarre skin just BECUASE it's bizarre. Make sure it saw combat, make sure it was on a front line plane."

We have very colorful P-40N skins we could make IF we had the P-40N in this game, only many of them were state-side training units and NEVER saw combat.

Well here we have a temporary skin that was painted on and removed in a short time and no verification if it ever flew in combat, or only training missions, or if the plane wearing it ever came within miles of an enemy plane.

I think the burden is to provide a BIT more info when such is the case.

I seem to recall a bright orange Ta152 (prototype color) that somebody was saying they'd skin and submit just because it was original.

Well that's not a valid skin for a reason, and IMO neither is this black 38 *unless* anybody can provide some more info.

I'm saying give us the bloody background on it! THEN once you've shown it's worth of being an AH skin go for it!

[Serenity]

Serenity (and this is a reply to Fencer and Lyric as well) I'm not saying "don't do unique and interesting skins" -- I'm saying "don't do the most bizarre skin just BECUASE it's bizarre. Make sure it saw combat, make sure it was on a front line plane."

We have very colorful P-40N skins we could make IF we had the P-40N in this game, only many of them were state-side training units and NEVER saw combat.

Well here we have a temporary skin that was painted on and removed in a short time and no verification if it ever flew in combat, or only training missions, or if the plane wearing it ever came within miles of an enemy plane.

I think the burden is to provide a BIT more info when such is the case.

I seem to recall a bright orange Ta152 (prototype color) that somebody was saying they'd skin and submit just because it was original.

Well that's not a valid skin for a reason, and IMO neither is this black 38 *unless* anybody can provide some more info.

I'm saying give us the bloody background on it! THEN once you've shown it's worth of being an AH skin go for it!

I see where you're coming from. I think the trick of it is, that these planes were deployed to combat with this configuration. The determination that they were unsuited for combat implies that they were tested in combat, and whether they actually engaged an enemy is, in my opinion, irrelevant, EXCEPT in the case of, say the Orange Ta-152H that may have engaged fighters on the way to delivery. The simple deployment to combat, and they attempt to meet the enemy, IMHO, qualifies a skin, no matter how short-lived the skin may be.

[Krusty]

Do you know they were deployed this way? It says they were painted this way, and deemed unsuitable for night intruder missions.

What does that mean? Some CO ran tests over a staging area over safe terrain? Somebody sent them out with no hope of ever seeing/engaging the enemy?

How brief a window before they were yanked out of that mission?

It's not as if they were sent into harms way, from the description of it (hence why I insist on more info in this P-38 instance)

[Guppy35]

Do you know they were deployed this way? It says they were painted this way, and deemed unsuitable for night intruder missions.

What does that mean? Some CO ran tests over a staging area over safe terrain? Somebody sent them out with no hope of ever seeing/engaging the enemy?

How brief a window before they were yanked out of that mission?

It's not as if they were sent into harms way, from the description of it (hence why I insist on more info in this P-38 instance)

Yes they were sent into harms way.  It was a pair of 38Js that were OD on top and black undersides.  There were also two 51s used.  I can give you the specific time frames too, but I'm on a laptop with a little guy next to me so the books are not in reach at the moment

[Larry]

Hey Dan, hows Aces Highs next great P38G test pilot doing? Does he have a little S.A.P.P. Jr. patch on his shirts yet? 

[rogerdee]

A couple of p38gs were painted black and used as night fighters.Lyric has pictures and info on these planes,i was skinning it for fun but now i can't complete it.
If anyone else wants to do it i am sure lyric will be willing to pass on his information if asked.

they were combat planes and they flew combat sorties.surly that would be enough to get it accepted.pictures and documentation.

[Guppy35]

A couple of p38gs were painted black and used as night fighters.Lyric has pictures and info on these planes,i was skinning it for fun but now i can't complete it.
If anyone else wants to do it i am sure lyric will be willing to pass on his information if asked.

they were combat planes and they flew combat sorties.surly that would be enough to get it accepted.pictures and documentation.

Don't believe they were black.  They were on the Canal.  Not much reason for it in AH to be honest.

[Guppy35]

Hey Dan, hows Aces Highs next great P38G test pilot doing? Does he have a little S.A.P.P. Jr. patch on his shirts yet? 

He had surgery to repair his cleft lip last Tuesday so he's recuperating.  He's a Mustang guy too.  Who'da thunk it?

Other then that he's doing well.  7 1/2 months old now.  Thanks for asking

[Larry]

Thats great to hear Dan.