Radar questions concerning bomber routing.

[TheWobble]

Ok I may be wrong here but it seems that no matter how low you fly you will still produce a red bar in a square to the enemy, if correct why??

Shouldent be able to fly below the radar horizon, and if so there would be NO indication to the enemy where you are.  I often fly the B-26 and fly very far into enemy terr, i usually try a very sneaky route to avoid enima fighters.
 
My usual tactic for the 26 is to come in to the target at about 12,000 feet and at max speed, hit the target as quick as possible and the DIVE yes dive, down to around 250 feet. Why? you ask, well the 26 has no damn bottom turret so all fighters have to do is get under ya and they can gobble ya up, plus flying higher wont do much to avoid fighters and they will catch you and then attack yer belly, so flying VERY low eliminates some of yer vulerability, plus the 26 goes about 280 on the deck so ya get home quicker.

I was also under the impression that once i was below radar (500 feet ???) that I would not still show a red bar to them.

ok so the question is:
 Doese going below 500 eliminate the dar-bar?
and if not, why not?? it makes sense that it would.

[Maverick]

 

Originally posted by TheWobble:
Ok I may be wrong here but it seems that no matter how low you fly you will still produce a red bar in a square to the enemy, if correct why??

Shouldent be able to fly below the radar horizon, and if so there would be NO indication to the enemy where you are.  I often fly the B-26 and fly very far into enemy terr, i usually try a very sneaky route to avoid enima fighters.
 
My usual tactic for the 26 is to come in to the target at about 12,000 feet and at max speed, hit the target as quick as possible and the DIVE yes dive, down to around 250 feet. Why? you ask, well the 26 has no damn bottom turret so all fighters have to do is get under ya and they can gobble ya up, plus flying higher wont do much to avoid fighters and they will catch you and then attack yer belly, so flying VERY low eliminates some of yer vulerability, plus the 26 goes about 280 on the deck so ya get home quicker.

I was also under the impression that once i was below radar (500 feet ???) that I would not still show a red bar to them.

ok so the question is:
 Doese going below 500 eliminate the dar-bar?
and if not, why not?? it makes sense that it would.

The red bar simulates the reporting by the indigenous population of an enemy aircraft in the area. It's kind of a weak theory to think there would be an unpopulated enemy country you could bomb or strafe with impunity simply because you came in at low altitude.

IMO anyone who believes they should be able to bomb / strafe an enemy field and not suffer damage or death for it, particularly as a lone wolf tactic, needs to just play offline with drones. It just ain't realistic to have that expectation even in a game.

Mav

[TheWobble]

 

The red bar simulates the reporting by the indigenous population of an enemy aircraft in the area

Well if thats how it works the red bad shouldent pop up the INSTANT you enter the grid, there should be a few miniutes before the "local population"  can
A: get to the phone.
B: call in the sighting.
C: convince the military their not drunk.

they should have villages that you have to avoid to not get sighted, not just some assumpton that some imbread sheep pedifile is gonna see yer bomber hurteling at 50 feet over 10 miles away.

all of that assuming that they werent too buisy with a sheep.

besides, this happens over open ocean who is reporting me then? mermaids?  , where are all these huts and villages?

Not a strong excuse for the dar-bar IMO.  

[funked]

The sector bars simulate jack squat.  They are a gameplay concession for people too impatient to find the enemy.

   

It's kind of a weak theory to think there would be an unpopulated enemy country you could bomb or strafe with impunity simply because you came in at low altitude.

Yeah such a weak theory, that the US designed several aircraft to do just that during the Cold War.  Such a weak theory, that the Allies ran thousands of sorties like this from England into occupied Europe.

Stealth was a real factor in a lot of WW2 air combat.  In the MA it is not a factor at all.  In fact it has been outlawed by the designers.  I know for a fact this has cost HTC more than one customer.  And that's sad.    

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 02-24-2001).]

[TheWobble]

I just feel that if your below 500 feet and nowhere near any NME bases or cities or installations of any kind, they should have no inkiling that your there.  the dar-bar really butchers the aspect of stratigy of sneaking and out of enemy terr.

[Sunchaser]

TW 1
Mav 0



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When did they put this thing in here and WTF is it for?

[SKurj]

There has been talk about implementing a system which will not show a red bar when aircraft are below 500ft.  The issue is that a system like this has to take into account that bases do not have alarm systems or anyway of notifying a team its under attack.  Sooo vehicles will still have to issue a red bar until bases can alert the team.

SKurj

[TheWobble]

 

There has been talk about implementing a system which will not show a red bar when aircraft are below 500ft. The issue is that a system like this has to take into account that bases do not have alarm systems or anyway of notifying a team its under attack. Sooo vehicles will still have to issue a red bar until bases can alert the team

I agree, but not until a vehicle fires a shot should it be known.

[flakbait]

NOE is always fun, whether to sneak up on someone or test your skills. But this darbar stuff is something I've had enough of. No low level attacks, no sneaking up, no psychological warfare. It stinks! Instead of this current stuff, let's modify a few things. First off, anything BELOW 500 AGL can't be seen as a darbar or as a dot. Anything between 500 and 2,500 feet AGL shows up as a darbar. Above 2,500 feet you get your normal radar dots. Darbars should only show up near the front lines, I'd say within one grid. So around fields you've got a 12.5 mile sector covered by radar. Beyond that for one grid in every direction you get darbars. Anything farther out you get NOTHING! No more watching the darbar grow clear across the fraggin map.

Around factories, cities, and HQs we should have an entire grid of dot radar coverage. With two grids in every direction around them showing darbars. This gives a somewhat rough simulation of a stragetic defense radar net. Just like Germany and the UK had during the war.

So let's fast-forward a bit now. We've got everything I stated above, and things are getting settled. No darbars for ground vehicles or aircraft flying below 500 feet AGL (above ground level for the non-informed). Between 500 feet and 2,500 feet, you get the usual darbar which tells you something is up. Above that normal dot radar. Here's a pic showing what I mean, to avoid confusing everyone to Hell and Gone.

 

The radar example at the bottom shows what my proposal would look like. Darbars would show up one grid away from a field, two grids away from a strat target. Dot dar would only show enemy dots half a grid from a field, or one grid for strat targets.


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Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta 6's Flight School
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"With all due respect Chaplian, I don't think God wants to hear from me right now.
I'm gonna go out there and remove one of His creations from this universe.
And when I get back I'm gonna drink a bottle of Scotch like it was
Chiggy von Richthofen's blood and celebrate his death."
Col. McQueen, Space: Above and Beyond
 

[TheWobble]

EXACTLY FLAK! EXACTLY  I hope HiTech sees this.

[Tac]

Agreed! Love this idea.

Its GOTTA be in 1.06    

Its just has to... has too... zzzzzzz

[Jekyll]

I like the idea flak.  Now if we could only get a slight ack delay as well then there would be a purpose to doing 'rhubarb' style missions.

I have visions of a flight of Jugs doing a low-level sortie to an enemy base, loaded with rockets.  4 fighters scream across the field at 200 feet, taking the ack by surprise.  20 seconds after the first aircraft enters ack range, all acks can start firing.

BUT only if the flight has been made below 500 feet!

But it will probably never happen  

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When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Chapter 13, verse 11

[TheWobble]

Ya I dont think anyone can object that this is a good change,  HTC WE NEED THIS!.

[SOB]

I can.  Getting people organized to defend HQ against incoming bombers is hard enough when you actually have some advanced warning of a strike...this would just make it that much harder, and having no dar sucks and causes some people to log.  Just because an idea seems great to you doesn't mean others will have the same enthusiasm for it.

On the other hand, I don't agree with my above stated opposing opinion & I think everything that Flakbait mentioned sounds great.  


SOB

[TheWobble]

 

Getting people organized to defend HQ against incoming bombers is hard enough when you actually have some advanced warning of a strike...this would just make it that much harder

Well SOB, according to the GODLY idea if they were flying high (which is what makes them hard to get) they would show up on dar with PLENTY of time to get some intercept together, however if they stayed low, they would:
A: have to climb at least 1 grid before target to not get shot to hell by the target's ack.
B: if they come in very low (below dar)once you realize attack is on you could launch and immediatly enguage them insted of havng to climb forever because they will have had to come in at 500 feet or less to suprise ya.

there problem solved!

Of course A: doesent really apply to a JABO attack but cmon..DONT BE A WET BLANKET!!