Why oh why?

[SkyRock]

Were you playing AH before air warrior went tits up?  vastly different community then, vastly different game then.  Vastly more enjoyable then. 

I started playing AH1 in july of '03

[Steve]

IIRC this sort of game play was one of the primary reasons the arena caps were imposed a few years back.

You don't recall.

The HO sux but the OP made mistakes along the way, which caused him to get ganged.

[SkyRock]

uhm...

Ok so the guy sis fighting a horde and he doesn't pay attention to his 12, is it the oppositions fault or the guy not paying attention? This is a two way battle, one can argue about the lack of skill of the opposition and one can argue the poor SA of the guy not paying attention.


it will always go round and round.....

let us get a straight answer out of you....do you condone HOing a fella that is already fighting 3 enemies?

[xxIENAxx]

Why oh why is it every tom, dick, and twitlimp wants to go for HO shots on a plane thats already fighting 3+?  Now, you can come in here and call it whining all you want...which it might be....but creating an atmosphere in the game where gettting HOd in a 1 vs 3 is the norm, and is defended by a growing number of numbtwits, is far worse....imo. 
 
 
 

[gpwurzel]

From my perspective, this isnt about the ho per se, its about the requirement of when fighting multiple opponents, the side with the most (in this case the 5) have to ho to get the kill.

I actually agree with Skyrock on this one, why ho when you have a majority in numbers - apart from the mine mine mine syndrome???


Not a slam on anyone, you can fly how the hell you like,  me, i'll fly the way I like ner 

Wurzel

[Masherbrum]

let us get a straight answer out of you....do you condone HOing a fella that is already fighting 3 enemies?

Pansies HO when numerically advantaged.

Hell Mark,  I had a thread about me on here last week that claimed "Karaya whined about me HO'ing him."    In truth, I never whined nor said that.   I merely eliminated the opportunity for him to HO and he still missed his shot.   He took "you missed your HO attempt" as "You HO'd!".   

This game is full of "exaggerations touted from a far."   But yeah, when you're the lone plane taking on 3+ and you get HO'd, you still won the fight.

[Ciaphas]

No I don't condone HO'ing. Anyone that has shot me down or has had the chance to partake in a feeble dog fight with me knows that I usually die quickly and with grace, well as graceful as a brick plummeting to the earth. I'm not a score tallying type of driver unless you think counting my deaths and trying to beat my all time war high as score tallying. point being if I see a bunch of friendlies ganging 1 or 2 bandits I will stay out of the fray if the enemies end up besting the traveling circus that was following them I will give him a little time to recover and then initiate my own death in a graceful, burning inferno, screaming "WTF!?" manner.

Regardless if I condone it or not it still does not negate my previous statement.

This is a two way battle, one can argue about the lack of skill of the opposition and one can argue the poor SA of the guy not paying attention.

Do you see now why these threads are counter productive? This is what's referred to as a conundrum.

[BaldEagl]

Allow me to clarify:

I started out chasing a Pony to the deck in my XVI aware that there were many enemy cons around and no friendlies in the immediate vicinity.  I had seen at least two Ponies, two Hogs, a Typh and a N1K below me just moments before so I knew it wasn't going to be a one on one.

The Pony tried unsuccessfully to force an overshoot when we reached the deck at which point we got into a turn fight and he was immediately joined by another Pony.  After two turns there were four Ponies.  I had taken a couple of minor pings manouvering to avoid the second pairs shots as they entered the fray.  I had two in one view and two more in another view and was manouvering to try to get them all into a single view.  I was having a very fun time at this point in the fight and almost had them all in the same view when I came out of a low yo-yo into another Pony coming HO.  I had no choice at this point but to straighten the nose and try to gain enough E for a counter manouver but there was no time.  He pulled the trigger.

I had no problem fighting multiple cons.  I knew that was going to be the case.  I didn't expect to live through it and my SA was just fine thank you.

My frustration is what's the point in HOing a guy in that situation?  That Pony wasn't coming out of a turn.  He was flat and level coming straight at me.  He made no effort to do anything but pull the trigger and, I'd guess, puff up his chest.

I seriously hope that the other four Pony drivers chastised him for the HO.  He ruined what was turning into one of the most fun fights I've had in a long time.

[Ciaphas]

yo-yo into another Pony coming HO

OK, what's the problem then, you are a victim of circumstance. Nothing more nothing less. Like you said you were going to gain speed for a counter but he pulled the trigger, it happens.

[DamnedRen]

From my perspective, this isnt about the ho per se, its about the requirement of when fighting multiple opponents, the side with the most (in this case the 5) have to ho to get the kill.

I actually agree with Skyrock on this one, why ho when you have a majority in numbers - apart from the mine mine mine syndrome???


Not a slam on anyone, you can fly how the hell you like,  me, i'll fly the way I like ner 

Wurzel

I do also but it's the situation you put yourself into. The "mine, mine, mine" concept comes from kill starved noob's. The HO guy comes from the same group. They are merely going about it differently. The environment will not change.

If that's a given and anyone who's flown for any length of time should know when any more than a 1v1 engagement is encountered the possibility  exists for as many enemy fighters to jump in from any direction. as might be in the area. The "any direction" means if some noob sees you and you happened to be flying toward him as he comes in it really doesn't matter to him if you don't like HO's. It's his 50/50 chance at getting a kill one of the only ways he may know how.

As frustrating as it may be, you (ya'll) put yourself into that situation. So, the purpose of the is?

Ren

To the best of my recollection no one has ever taught anyone to HO in the TA. It's a self-learned development.

[gpwurzel]

Agreed Ren, its not going to change. I consider myself one of the worst pilots ingame, but am continually striving to get better - I learn something every single time I up.

I've often put myself in a position where I've engaged more than 3 opponents (up to around 9 most of the time lol) and its my decisions that have put me there - that said, I can understand  Balds frustration.

Wurzel

[Saurdaukar]

90 IAS (Indicated Air Speed?): almost falling out of the sky = dead anyways

Regardless if you have one or thirty bandits chasing you.

True, but out of context.

Youre assuming its a defensive maneuver when it may very well be required to maintain an advantage over whoever you are fighting.

The problem with that, as you stated, is that it places you at a significant disadvantage against the other four guys hoping to add you to their Assist column.

Basically, you can choose who gets your kill because if you avoid pick after pick after pick, you will ultimately die to the first guy you engaged, who has had time to egress and come back.  If you choose to remain engaged, one of the dweebs will eventually land a lucky hispano on your vert stab.

When the picks are HO's and its a 4 or 5v1 engagement... thats just stupid. 

[Tr1gg22]

another one of these?

[stodd]

turtle wrangling 

[Crash Orange]

State of the game.  Unfortunately, 90% of the player base seems completely unable to successfully shoot down an aircraft unless the odds are stacked in a manner consistent with that experienced over Germany in April 1945.

I don't think that's supportable. I lose at least as many "fair" 1-1 fights as I win, but I win some too, and I'm an average fighter pilot at best with a far from complete mastery of ACM and a middling fighter score. (Yeah, I know, score is BS, but how else can you compare yourself to people you don't run into often enough to learn firsthand?)

Maybe I'm only beating other mediocre pilots, but if I can get kills that don't involve HOing, vulching, or hiding in a horde, a lot more than 10% of players are capable of doing likewise, and if I'm killing mediocre pilots in more-or-less even fights on a regular basis, that means there are a fair number of mediocre pilots at least sometimes willing to risk a more-or-less even fight.

(And I'm not claiming that all my kills are in even fights against other fighters - just that a significant number of them are.)

I suspect a more accurate description is that many players either lack the confidence that they can successfully shoot down other aircraft, or or lack the skill to shoot down other aircraft often and consistently enough to make their score as lofty as they'd like, which leads them into less-than-sporting behaviors intended to pad their scores.

I'm still not convinced it's 90% though. I think more often it's just a case of laziness and following the path of least resistance - for example, taking the HO shot that's right in front of them even though it's a dumb move not because it's the only way they can kill, but because it's the action that requires the least thought or effort on their part right at that moment.