DA is a problem

[kilo2]

I dont think it should be forced on people, but I do think it should be an option. The email packet thing sounds like a good idea.

[CAP1]

I spent some time in the DA today at the furball area. Anyone who knows me knows my aim is terrible. I got tired of shooting AI in the off-line mission and thought if I hit furball lake a bit I could practice my shooting.

To understand my point of view, I understand a furball as a free for all. Twist and turn, fight till dead and grab a new plane and come back. I did have a couple of good fights, 5 minutes of fun (lost one won one) out of over an hour. The rest of the time was nothing but HOs, runnning, and cherry pickers from high alt. A poor place to practice, lesson learned.

The problem is the new guys who are just getting started end up there and are being taught that this is how the game is played. I saw one guy in there today that was so excited about his first kill....which he died trying to get, but even so was ecstatic at the kill. I called one guy out for running home in his temp so he could land his 2 kills  His excuse was he was out of ammo, big deal fight it out! that's what the arena is suppose to be about. I'll give you a fight even if I only have half a wing, I can learn from that, everyone knows how to run. While trying to get my point across one of those cherrypickers (707200) decided to butt in and defend that "style" of play. By the time I left, the new guy who was so pumped about his first kill was getting instrution on how to get more.... stay fast and pick guys off of other planes and so on. Another one lost to the stupidity that is allow to fester in that swamp.

Its sad when you can't even get a fight in the DA any more, and now we have the new "trainees" learning this crap from this pond scum. "Yee Hahh!"

n mw on time....i was in a p39, attacking gv's. a p38 jumped me. the fight went uphill a little, and out to sea. i ran out of ammo, but had position on him. the fight continued for 3 or 4 minutes till help arrived. it was actually fun, trying to stay on him, even though i could do nothing/

[Shuffler]

n mw on time....i was in a p39, attacking gv's. a p38 jumped me. the fight went uphill a little, and out to sea. i ran out of ammo, but had position on him. the fight continued for 3 or 4 minutes till help arrived. it was actually fun, trying to stay on him, even though i could do nothing/

It wasn't meeeee

[CAP1]

It wasn't meeeee

i know......you'd have handed my arse back to me.


ooooo.....guess what???? i actually got a couple guys in mw to squelch me last night!!!!!!   

best thing was i didn't even say anything squelch worthy. 

[DamnedRen]

The DA has it's place.

A thought...turn on killshooter for a week in the DA and watch the migration to the MA...

Ren

[shppr01]

Emailing a packet to new players sounds like a good idea.  Give them the manual that everyone says they should read.. No way to miss it then.  Or at least link to the trainers' website in the new account email confirmation.

i work for a printing company and would be happy to print it !!

[TwentyFo]

I blame the horde mission planners for this new breed of dweebery.

[DamnedRen]

I blame the horde mission planners for this new breed of dweebery.

I didn't know there were mission planners in the DA.

 

Ren

[PFactorDave]

Listen guys, just saying that the new guys should go to the TA isn't nearly enough.  You're seriously deluding yourself if you think that that alone would make a serious dent.

What happens when a new guys goes into the training arena right now?  Well, 90% of the time there are only a few people there.  None of them are trainers.  So, there's a few guys in there doing their own thing.  The new guy is unsure of himself, well, because he is new.  Doesn't know who to ask.

Doesn't know what to ask.

If he does toss a question out into the open, he gets either...

1)  No answer

2)  A wrong answer

3)  A smart aleck answer

4)  If he is really lucky he'll get somebody who gives him the right answer

5)  All of the above from different people.  How does a new guy filter that for good information?

Actually finding somebody who will actually spend time actually teaching a new guy how to fly is pretty darn rare.  Finding somebody who is even qualified and willing to do so is even rarer.

I had lots of questions when I was new.  I tried asking them on Country Channel in the MA.  You can imagine the types of answers you get there.  I went into the TA to ask questions numerous times.  Had all 5 scenarios described above.  Not once did anyone ever offer to spend time with me and teach me basic ACM.  I even asked if there was anyone who could teach me.  It wasn't until I had been flying for several weeks that I even actually ran into a Trainer who was on duty and answering questions.  

But let's assume that everyone who is new to the game does actually go to the TA for some training.  Let's make it even more amazing and assume that they all go to the TA when there is a trainer on duty.

The trainers would be totally swamped, to the point that teaching anyone anything would be nearly impossible.

I get so tired of hearing/reading all the "hot sticks" telling people to go to the TA.  It's pretty much meaningless the way things stand right now.

Before HTC starts sending e-mails and pointing new guys into the TA, they need to draft a lot more trainers and actually make a significant effort to staff the Training Arena close to if not 24/7.  Then they need to create a structered curriculum, so a Trainer has a basic plan to get these folks on the right path.  It's one thing for a new guy to have to figure out what he needs the Trainer to work with him on, another to force the Trainer to spend time trying to identify what the new guys most immediate needs are.  And quite another thing if the Trainer could simply ask what was the last Lesson number that the trainee had recieved.

It would be pretty simple to build a series of basic lessons.  Walk the new guys through some basic ACM.  Teach them a little about Energy states, how altitude and speed can be interchanged.  Teach them about adding a vertical component to their turns and why simple flat turning all the time will get you shot down.  

It wouldn't take very many of these lessons to greatly improve a new pilots performance in the Main Arenas.

Basically, I think that if the answer is to route new players into the TA by force, which some of you are suggesting.  There darn well better be a system in place in the TA to actually help them once they get there.

Right now, the training system in the TA is anemic at best.


Disclaimer:  This is in no way a shot at the guys who are Trainers.  I'm just saying that if HTC is going to build forced training into the game, or if the community is serious about improving game play, there really needs to be something different happening in the TA then what is in there right now.

[DamnedRen]

Listen guys, just saying....blah, blah, blah.....
blah, blah blah.....
 ....game play, there really needs to be something different happening in the TA then what is in there right now.

Oh, I don't know I seem to be in the TA almost daily.  Anyone really have problems getting me to help them? Albeit, one at a time. Wait! Sometime's I help whole squads at a time or at least 8-10 squad members at a time. I helped 2 squads in the past 3 weeks. 

Responses welcome.
Thanks

Ren
Aces High Training Corps

[The Fugitive]

A couple ideas......

HTC receives a newbie signing up for an account. They take an email address, and with it they send a packet. In this packet they could send a manual, made up with links to the trainers site. The manual could be just a basic thing so as to NOT overwhelm the newbi. How to log in, set up your mouse/stick, how to set up views, the commands sheet, how to set up your mic, and how to view films.

At the end, an index linking to films of basic maneuvers that are posted at the trainers site.

As for the trainers, seeing that they are all volunteers its hard to "tie" them up to a schedule. Maybe an assistant trainer setup might help. Have the trainers train a few assistants in basic things say and get them qualified in certain things.  If you have 4-5 people qualified to teach a basic course in picking a plane, getting it started, take off, a couple turns then land. You could have a course every other night. Same with BFM, or  sets of ACMs. With 4-5 assistants trained in each it wouldn't be as much of a burden to fill the time slots. The trainers could then be freed up for the more advanced 1 on 1 training some might want.  

The info is there, its just not advertised that much. A lot of people did a lot of work on the Wiki pages, but I'll bet they aren't accessed that much. Maybe a newsletter with game tips, break downs of moves, tactics, how to take a base WITH OUT NOE    ok maybe that last one is a bit much, but they have to get the word out there that these resources are available.

Maybe HTC can set up a MOD asking if people would be interested in giving up their email address to be added to a news letter list, see how many would be interested.  

[CAP1]

Listen guys, just saying that the new guys should go to the TA isn't nearly enough.  You're seriously deluding yourself if you think that that alone would make a serious dent.

What happens when a new guys goes into the training arena right now?  Well, 90% of the time there are only a few people there.  None of them are trainers.  So, there's a few guys in there doing their own thing.  The new guy is unsure of himself, well, because he is new.  Doesn't know who to ask.

Doesn't know what to ask.

If he does toss a question out into the open, he gets either...

1)  No answer

2)  A wrong answer

3)  A smart aleck answer

4)  If he is really lucky he'll get somebody who gives him the right answer

5)  All of the above from different people.  How does a new guy filter that for good information?

Actually finding somebody who will actually spend time actually teaching a new guy how to fly is pretty darn rare.  Finding somebody who is even qualified and willing to do so is even rarer.

I had lots of questions when I was new.  I tried asking them on Country Channel in the MA.  You can imagine the types of answers you get there.  I went into the TA to ask questions numerous times.  Had all 5 scenarios described above.  Not once did anyone ever offer to spend time with me and teach me basic ACM.  I even asked if there was anyone who could teach me.  It wasn't until I had been flying for several weeks that I even actually ran into a Trainer who was on duty and answering questions.  

But let's assume that everyone who is new to the game does actually go to the TA for some training.  Let's make it even more amazing and assume that they all go to the TA when there is a trainer on duty.

The trainers would be totally swamped, to the point that teaching anyone anything would be nearly impossible.

I get so tired of hearing/reading all the "hot sticks" telling people to go to the TA.  It's pretty much meaningless the way things stand right now.

Before HTC starts sending e-mails and pointing new guys into the TA, they need to draft a lot more trainers and actually make a significant effort to staff the Training Arena close to if not 24/7.  Then they need to create a structered curriculum, so a Trainer has a basic plan to get these folks on the right path.  It's one thing for a new guy to have to figure out what he needs the Trainer to work with him on, another to force the Trainer to spend time trying to identify what the new guys most immediate needs are.  And quite another thing if the Trainer could simply ask what was the last Lesson number that the trainee had recieved.

It would be pretty simple to build a series of basic lessons.  Walk the new guys through some basic ACM.  Teach them a little about Energy states, how altitude and speed can be interchanged.  Teach them about adding a vertical component to their turns and why simple flat turning all the time will get you shot down.  

It wouldn't take very many of these lessons to greatly improve a new pilots performance in the Main Arenas.

Basically, I think that if the answer is to route new players into the TA by force, which some of you are suggesting.  There darn well better be a system in place in the TA to actually help them once they get there.

Right now, the training system in the TA is anemic at best.


Disclaimer:  This is in no way a shot at the guys who are Trainers.  I'm just saying that if HTC is going to build forced training into the game, or if the community is serious about improving game play, there really needs to be something different happening in the TA then what is in there right now.

I'VE NEVER.....EVER.......

asked a questionh in the ta that's gone unanswered. i always seem to find helpful people in there.....ALWAYS.

 you don't have to be a trainer to help, and guys like bigrat, morfeind, and some other non-trainers ALWAYS offer advice when asked.

[DamnedRen]

HTC receives a newbie signing up for an account. They take an email address, and with it they send a packet. In this packet they could send a manual, made up with links to the trainers site. The manual could be just a basic thing so as to NOT overwhelm the newbi. How to log in, set up your mouse/stick, how to set up views, the commands sheet, how to set up your mic, and how to view films.

Now that is a good idea. I suspect some folks may even read the material. There will always be a few that are so impatient they can't wait to get started (read: MOTD...does anyone actually read it or wait until someone tells them to because they are breaking every rule of the arena?).

Ren
Aces High Training Corps

[PFactorDave]

Oh, I don't know I seem to be in the TA almost daily.  Anyone really have problems getting me to help them? Albeit, one at a time. Wait! Sometime's I help whole squads at a time or at least 8-10 squad members at a time. I helped 2 squads in the past 3 weeks. 

Responses welcome.
Thanks

Ren
Aces High Training Corps

You've helped two squads, eh?  I thought we were talking about helping new players.  You know, the new guys that keep getting told to go to the Training Arena by all these hot sticks.  Oh wait!  Maybe we should be telling the new players to join a squad that has an arrangement  with a trainer.

You know, several months ago I wanted some one on one time with a trainer.  So I e-mailed every single trainer on the list asking for some training.  I got two replies.  One from Murdr, who was very kind to spend some time with me.  And another one about 3 months later from a different trainer.  Most of the trainers never bothered to answer my e-mail.  I would have loved to scheduled a session or two with several different trainers.  Only Murdr made himself available.  Heck, I think there were 6 or 7 of the trainer e-mails that  were listed that came back as undeliverable.

Feel free to delude yourself into thinking that all is just fine with the Training Arena.  

 

I'm more then happy to continue this conversation somewhere else, in a new thread or via PM, but I'm done hijacking this thread.

[fuzeman]

Off topic as its unrelated to the DA mess, but related to the nOOb and Training aspect.

I think it would be nice if the Training part of CT was implemented. You are stuck in the TA for a period of time and have to pass through this Flight School to get your wings which allow you to enter other arenas. I'm sure a significant portion of people would not like this idea however and limiting your paying customer base to the TA wouldn't help things on the HTC balance sheet.