Question for all the people who call the spitfire 16 a noob plane.

[SectorNine50]

EDIT:
<-- Fell behind...

Thanks for dragging me back up front Steve!

[Steve]

Wouldn't that prove his point?  His average kills are 2.23, but lands 11 in a Spit 16...?

I'm not talking about Moot.  Come dude... keep up.

[Crash Orange]

A)  You know how hard it is to learn SA in this game?

[etc.]

Sure, I get that. There are a hundred ways for a novice pilot to get killed, and that's only because he hasn't personally experienced the 101st yet. But that affects every other plane too.

Once you get the flaps out on the Spit 16, the thing IS almost literally a UFO.  Go try it, you can do incredible things with it.  Even before flaps out, it's ability to burn and regenerate energy makes it extremely deadly and extremely forgiving of errors.

Sure, of course. That's why I fly it half the time - and I make no claims of being a good fighter jock! It is forgiving and lacks vices and relatively easy for a new pilot to learn in. But that's where it ends. This stuff moot is slinging just doesn't fly. It's not the wonder weapon that substitutes for skill, and it doesn't give a 2-weeker anything remotely like a 50-50 shot against a master. It certainly hasn't made me invincible - I do better in it, but not *that* much better.

[MachFly]

??  Is your film viewer not working?

sorry, did not see the links. And I guess WTG

just 1 question:

Or more to the point, I couldn't have done that with any other plane.

If you could have done that in any plane than what advantage did the spit 16 give you?

[MachFly]

Well aren't you something.  Ohhh wait... you don't typically land 10 kills so using this  example is bunk.  In fact, you average a very pedestrian 2.23 kills per sortie.  *yawn*.

just for you


I don't try to land 10+ kills daily, for 2 reasons A. I don't care about the kills per sortie B. Coming home is much more important, so I would rather just RTB than stay and risk getting 10 kills. I don't play this game just to increase the # of kills I have per sortie, I play it so it would be like the simulation of real WWII combat. And in how many of thous sorties during WWII did the pilots get 0 kills? I would say it's most of them.

[Steve]

just for you
(Image removed from quote.)

I don't try to land 10+ kills daily, for 2 reasons A. I don't care about the kills per sortie B. Coming home is much more important, so I would rather just RTB than stay and risk getting 10 kills. I don't play this game just to increase the # of kills I have per sortie, I play it so it would be like the simulation of real WWII combat. And in how many of thous sorties during WWII did the pilots get 0 kills? I would say it's most of them.

More of the exact same  tripe. You posted one tidbit of anecdotal evidence, and it happened to be in the best prop plane in the game, and expect to make a counterpoint with it. No.
 Not only that, it's a perked plane which actually plays into Moot's side of the argument.

Start averaging 10 kills per sortie and your argument might make sense. You don't though, you average around 2 per sortie, regardless of your reasons.

[grizz441]

I don't try to land 10+ kills daily, for 2 reasons A. I don't care about the kills per sortie B. Coming home is much more important, so I would rather just RTB than stay and risk getting 10 kills. I don't play this game just to increase the # of kills I have per sortie, I play it so it would be like the simulation of real WWII combat. And in how many of thous sorties during WWII did the pilots get 0 kills? I would say it's most of them.

Can you fly like m00t did in that film?

[Kazaa]

Nice flying m00t.

[moot]

It's not the wonder weapon that substitutes for skill, and it doesn't give a 2-weeker anything remotely like a 50-50 shot against a master. It certainly hasn't made me invincible

It substitutes for skill. How much is the real question, instead of the bogus all/nothing quality you're saying. I didn't say "master".  The only real "masters" in this game are a couple of guys who consistently compete for top spot even e.g. after not playing for a long while.  Like Drex.  I never said master, I said the spit16 gives you a good 50/50 chance if you're past the stage where you can't keep the plane in the air. If you're an average player in a spit16 and run into an experienced player in an average plane, you do have a significant chance to win it, mostly thanks to the plane.  I mean, WTF do you think it's at ENY 5 for?? I don't know how that's not obvious; except for you just having a bone to pick with me.  I never said invincible either.. I mean which is it, taking your argument for granted for a minute.  Is it 50/50 against a master, or is it invincible?  You're just pissed off because I called out your precious spit16 for the crutch it is.

So I'll say it again. To the question "Is the spit16 a noob plane?", yeah, it's pretty freakin obvious it is.  For the reasons I gave. You can afford to make all sorts of mistakes in it and still carry on with barely any penalties.  This goes for the seafire, spit8 and 9 to a somewhat lesser degree.  The spit5 was neutered a while back and the spit1 is what it is.  What you and anyone else who reads this might notice, if you gave it a proper consideration instead of your retarded fudge and denial, is that the spit16 does allow you to dodge to no end. You can stay alive in it as long as you wish.  The difference with e.g. a 190D9 is that it survives by getting out of the fight.  The Spit16 allows you to not only stay in the fight, but shoot em down.  In e.g. a D9, you can only dictate the fight from a dominant position.  You just ignore all these subtleties for the sake of having the last word.

[moot]

If you couldn't have done that in any plane than what advantage did the spit 16 give you?

The right mix of swift agility (as opposed to e.g. the P38's "slow" agility with fowler flaps out, or the Ki84's agility "restricted" to that very low flaps deploy speed), thrust to spare, dead simple ballistics.  This all adds up to you being able to both be where you want to when you have to, but also shoot easily, and corresponding defensive abilities. You can fly downwards and cork out to nearly 90deg from a spiral "on a dime" evasive, you can put the thing sideways and recover like a cat thrown across the room, etc.  I wish I'd filmed my first sortie.  You can see the spit16 engaged in a 4:1 with 1 or 2 orbiting at 4K, managing that 4:1 the whole time. Saddled on an La7 trying its best oblique circles, an N1K trying to BNZ pretty tight, a Yak doing a mix of tight consecutive passes, and a P40 trying to keep up.. I nailed the N1K and Yak on one of their exits but screwed up the timing on the shots so they lived, and could still afford to break off midway thru a sustained lead turn on the La7 for a quick snapshot at the P40.. No other plane allows you this.  Not the Ki84, not the P38, not the zeke (too little excess thrust), not the 109F, not the N1K (too sluggish in acceleration and nowhere near as forgiving at and past departure), none of the CV planes (F4Fs too damn slow).. and so on.

[BaldEagl]

If the Spit XVI is such an uber ride in the hands of an experienced pilot and it's one of my primary rides (and I consider myself experienced) why do I have consistantly better K/D rates in all of these?

P-47N
Fw 190A-8
Fw 190A-5
Spitfire Mk XIV
F4U-4
P-38J
Fw 190D-9
Hurricane Mk IIC
P-51D
Tempest

And nearly equal K/D rates in these?

Spitfire Mk IX
Bf 109K-4
F6F-5
FM2
N1K2

[moot]

You're flying it wrong or flying the others more correctly, or some combination of that. Additionally, the spit16 thrives in furballing, whereas half or more of those other planes don't work in situations where they can't escape for E, such as knee deep in furballs. That means you're that much more removed from kills, instead of having them directly near you and at slow speed, IOW just a few seconds from dying. You have to manage your fights further to the BNZ side of the spectrum.
Asking why the P47N or 190A8 doesn't have a K/D comparable to the Spit16 is disingenuous. K/D doesn't tell the whole story. It doesn't reveal that, for instance, the Tempest just trims the furballs at high speed because it would get mauled in a slow knife fight, including because it's a perk prize. The Spit16's admittedly no level speed champion, but it does have top tier climb and E retention, which allows it to be competitive at high speed.  That means it's got just a marginal disadvantage in its only weak area.

Read the topic:  "the spit16 is a noob plane".  That means easy to use, forgiving, and possibly lethal with little effort.  All of which it is.

[Anaxogoras]

If the Spit XVI is such an uber ride in the hands of an experienced pilot and it's one of my primary rides (and I consider myself experienced) why do I have consistantly better K/D rates in all of these?

The performance of the Spitfire goads pilots into being too aggressive in situations where in other aircraft they would back off, gain altitude, extend, etc.

I've been flying the Spit IX this tour (it's my Tunisia ride) and I find myself getting ganged frequently, something which doesn't often happen to me in other rides.  The explanation isn't so much the low speed of the IX as it is that when I'm in a Spit I insist on killing the guy after I begin an attack because I know there's no possible way he can outmaneuver me.  My target, in desperation, drags me lower and toward his friendlies, and low and behold I get ganged.

[-pjk--]

To be short and not rape english language too much, moot has said all i would; if i could type  decent english

puujiiko

[Steve]

If the Spit XVI is such an uber ride in the hands of an experienced pilot and it's one of my primary rides (and I consider myself experienced) why do I have consistantly better K/D rates in all of these?

I've seen how you fly.
You fly with extreme caution... timidity...  call it what you will.  In a spixteen you can get very aggressive, even more than most other planes because it is so forgiving. Your flying style doesn't allow you to exploit this.

The performance of the Spitfire goads pilots into being too aggressive

Baldeagl doesn't need to worry about that.