Author Topic: 109G-2  (Read 1402 times)

Offline Oldman731

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9423
Re: 109G-2
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2009, 11:20:20 PM »
So what does all this mean, all this "fight vertical"? It means keep your nose high when possible, use manuevers that convert your E into potential E by gaining altitude. You have a very good conversion rate by virtue of the 109's climb rate; you gain more potential E for every 1 mph of IAS lost than most planes. Other planes starting from the same E state won't be able to match your conversion rate (ie, they don't climb as well), so if they try to match your vertical manuevering you will be in possession of greater total E by the completion of your manuever (Total E can be defined as IAS + Potential E). Whether this means you find yourself co-alt with greater IAS, or at a higher alt with equal IAS, it does not matter, you now have more E.

Excellent explanation from the Trotter dude (who is a menace in a P-47 as well).

One additional point.  All planes turn best when pointed straight up or straight down.  Go up (or down), roll in direction you want to turn, and pull through.  With the 109s, which are generally the best climbers of the game, this conserves your energy and lets you turn inside planes like the Hellcat (which is not real fond of climbs).

- oldman

Offline TexMurphy

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1488
Re: 109G-2
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2009, 04:16:47 AM »
Lag Displacement Roll.

The lag displacement roll is a very good solution to the right turn problems. You dont want to follow in right turns so the lag displacement roll is a great solution, its also a very e friendly solution.

When your enemy breaks right you pull up, roll left and come back down 90 degree to original heading and you come from a high six position.

Tex

Offline Anaxogoras

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7072
Re: 109G-2
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2009, 09:00:44 AM »
Unless you're at the edge of a stall, you're exaggerating the effect of torque.  Keep in mind that most of your opponents also have torque that pulls to the left; I almost never have a hard time rolling right to follow a bandit in the 109.
gavagai
334th FS


RPS for Aces High!

Offline RELIC

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 653
      • http://DFA-Squad.org/
Re: 109G-2
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2009, 09:12:40 AM »
Flew the F4 last night in the FSO.  Nice little plane but wish it had one more cannon.
DGSII Scenario-2012  352nd FG/487th FS
P-51D "Cold Gin"
Noseart

Offline Tr1gg22

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 871
Re: 109G-2
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2009, 12:01:12 PM »
Hell no!, Not the stall limiter! I hope you meant Combat Trim...
:rofl :aok
"CO" of the Wobblin Gobblins...

Offline Saurdaukar

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8610
      • Army of Muppets
Re: 109G-2
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2009, 11:23:27 AM »
Last night I was flying the G2 and F4, prepping for the upcoming FSO, and was having a hard time with the flight model, especially of the G2. 

The F4 is a much easier bird to learn than the G2, believe it or not.  The G2 is very well suited to a sort of mid-level, mid-speed E fight whereas the F is more suited to "entry-level" stall fighting due to the softer breakaway and easier recovery.

Comparing the two, I'd simply recommend you fight the F like it was a Spit 9 and fight the G2 like it was a Yak.

Quote
Another question, I thought the G2 would be able to take an F6F in a stallfight but had one hell of a time last night - albeit the F6F was flown very well and I was in a bird I never fly - but shouldn't the G2 be able to handle the Hellcat?

At low speeds with flaps out and proper trim, the F6F will be a handful for a G2.  In that sort of situation, your best bet (as is the case with any early-early, mid-mid or late-late 109 vs X match up) is to use your superior power to weight ratio to gain a vertical advantage.  The F6F has nowhere near the G2's ability to add E through acquiring altitude - during a fight.

Off the cuff, using that G2 v F6F match up, I'd offer the following:

1.)  Take the fight into the vertical as soon as possible.  You will gain energy rapidly and, should the Hellcat elect to try and follow, he will lose energy just as quickly.  The fight can go from even, to heavily lopsided in your favor, within the space of about 10 seconds.

2.)  Trim tail heavy.  Combat trim seems to be especially troublesome on the 109's in stall fights.  It limits your ability to bring the nose around in both the vertical and horizontal plains and will fight against the port leaning engine torque (which is an advantage once you learn to use it).

3.)  Once properly trimmed and fighting in the vertical, it should be easy to bleed a heavy, underpowered AC like the F6F, of any E advantage - and hold it for yourself.  Once a position above the Hellcat is obtained, the G2 has an uncanny ability to hang in the air with proper throttle management and careful use of the control surfaces.  Ill try and type out a visual...

Imagine yourself in a lazy rolling scissor with the Hellcat.  After a few rounds, you are both slow but you are on top. 

Continue trying to claw altitude by weaving back and forth above him.  This will put you in a risky position and you must carefully judge the Hellcat's E state to determine whether he has just enough E to get guns on you - or just enough E to bring his nose up in desperation (read: no shot).

When the 109 starts to become unstable, apply full rudder right, full aileron right and ease up on the throttle (flaps out goes without saying).  While reducing throttle in a climb sounds downright stupid, it will keep you level and stable by reducing the high torque/light airframe relationship between the DB605 and the G2 tub.

All this time, you should have the ability to rock your wings, while weaving, and get a visual on him, just below you.

When you see his nose begin to shudder and drop below the horizon, he's had it and you are now in complete control of the fight.

Apply full left rudder, full left aileron, slight back pressure on the stick and jam the throttle to WEP.

The combination of these factors will, almost within the space of your aircraft, snap roll you around, using primarily the engine torque, and if youve done it right, youll get a clear shot at him from about 150 yards and can rake him from nose to tail. 

Once you see that shot coming, ease up on the throttle again and reduce control surface input to regain stability.

Shoot.  Boom.  Rinse.  Repeat.

The entire engagement shouldnt last more than 20-25 seconds.

Offline Agent360

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 780
      • http://troywardphotography.com
Re: 109G-2
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2009, 08:02:49 PM »
Excellent info.  Sounds like I was overestimating the low speed abilities of the G2 - all part of the learning process.  I will adjust tactics accordingly and turn on the stall limiter.
Now if 5 o'clock would just hurry up and arrive.



The 109G2 will out fly the 109f4. Yes the 109f4 is the turner however it is not as fast and is out classed in RAW climb at slow speed by all the other 109's.

ALL 109's have superior flying characteristincs when slow over almost all other planes when VERY slow. The ability to keep the nose up in a constant climbing scissor is the key. This really means you can point your nose up and pull over almost every time in a rolling scissor while forcing your opponent to fly a straiter scissor. You get constant guns solutions while he struggles to avoid.

All 109's and especially the 109G2 have EXCELLANT slow speed handling. The combonation of raw climb and wing stalling make it nearly impossible to stay behind....especially in a well planned overshoot scissor move.


Offline RELIC

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 653
      • http://DFA-Squad.org/
Re: 109G-2
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2009, 03:46:25 PM »
Just checked back and lots more good info.  Thanks again!
DGSII Scenario-2012  352nd FG/487th FS
P-51D "Cold Gin"
Noseart