109G-2

[RELIC]

I rarely fly the 109 series - not very fond of the guns, views or the flight models, so I thought I'd pop in here for some help.
Last night I was flying the G2 and F4, prepping for the upcoming FSO, and was having a hard time with the flight model, especially of the G2.  Seems to me it's like trying to ride a bicycle on a railway line in a stiff wind.  I had combat trim off and tried flaps up and down with little effect.  Any tips on this bird?  What speed should I be trimming out at - does it help to be trimmed for level flight at lower or higher speeds?
Another question, I thought the G2 would be able to take an F6F in a stallfight but had one hell of a time last night - albeit the F6F was flown very well and I was in a bird I never fly - but shouldn't the G2 be able to handle the Hellcat?
Thanks in advance for any help.

[dkff49]

I have a great love for how the g2 flies and in my short time of flying and even shorter time with stall limiter off I have figured out a couple of things.

For one thing make sure you take the time to adjust your views. you get it so the bars in the canopy are mostly gone if you work at it a little. this will help immensely and then it's not so bad

Next thing I have noticed (at least for me) that thing has a nasty stall and throttle work is very important when trying to recover from one. I have been getting better with this even without the stall limiter

Also with the stall limiter off, don't just throw throttle full from idle. this can help induce a stall when you are slow. that engine has alot of torque.

Finally the last thing I have figured out when not using the stall limiter is that using alot of rudder when slow is not such a great thing. You will increase your roll rate but almost too much especially when slow.

now some of these things I have noticed may be exaggerated since I am inexperienced for the most part with the 109's but I do think they probably hold true to some extent anyway.

[Motherland]

What do you fly normally? The G-2 is probably the easiest of the 109 series to get a handle on. If you're having trouble with the stability, you can try the G-6, however the performance is worse, particularly in speed.

[RELIC]

@ dfkff49
I have set the views and got something usable - thanks for the info tho.  I also found the rudder and throttle were giving me issues.

@ Motherland
When taking up a non perkie bird I usually fly American iron - the 51D, F4U1A, 38J&K.  Those planes all feel much more stable with better rudder input - especially at low speeds with flaps out.

[Motherland]

When fighting in the Bf. 109 series, really the instability is something you can to use to your advantage. The torque and the rudder in particular are very useful. It's a small light aircraft with a huge engine and a large rudder, and thus both of these are very useful if used effectively, although if you don't have a feel of the aircraft they can bite you in the ass.
Although above this, what you really want to do is climb! (something you'd never do in a big fat heavy American bird ). BnZ works OK with the 109 (it can be difficult because of the aircraft's problems with highspeed controlability), but something you can do against about 99% of the planeset is outclimb them... the sustained climb is great! The best virtue of the 109 series.

Try looking for some of Agent360's instructional films, they're supposed to be pretty good.

[Slade]

I commonly insert 109 flights in between flying other birds because I think it takes far greater skill than many perky types planes.

I hope you find these early 109 (f\g2\g6) tips useful:

• If not bomber hunting don't use gondolas.  You may just gain that extra bit of speed and turning ability needed to make the difference.
• Consider NOT taking a drop tank.  I find a gain of approximately 5 mph without the tank mounting hardware drag.
• Against fighters, set convergence to 400 (or less) and don't shoot until you are at your convergence or closer (I like 375).
• Until you get to KNOW these 109's, when the plane is pointing toward the ground back off the throttle immediately like a habit.  This will keep you from locking and allow you to stay at speeds where the plane can turn effectively.
• Know you can climb competitively or better than most planes.
• Hang on to your E like your life depends on it.  I have seen many stats that show how good these 109s retain E but in practice it just does not feel that way to me.
• In turn fights don't turn right (unless you are using this as a tactic).

Things that make sense to others many times don't work for me or after months of trying magically start working.  I find I keep finding "new" things about all these planes.  The only thing that really changes though is my skill (ever so slightly). 

Most importantly, don't take any advice here as literal (this post included).  Use this material only as a guide and prove all advice and techniques for yourself. 

Good hunting,

Slade 

[RELIC]

Thanks for the tips so far.  Unfortunately most of the info given, while excellent, is stuff I was already aware of.  I need to double check that I didn't have the gondolas loaded up - I was pretty sure I didn't.  Does it make a difference between the 200 or 150 cannon loadout?  I assume it would not.
I was aware of the compression issues but I thought that in a low speed stallfight I would be able to easily handle an F6F.  The low speed handling really threw me for a loop.  Am I correct in flying with combat trim off for the G2?  I normally trim out level at higher speeds and this works fine for me even in low speed fights - should I be trimmed for lower speeds?
Or perhaps I simply need 30 - 40 hours of flight time in her!
Thanks again to all who are trying to help.

[Motherland]

The F6F is a monster slow if someone competent is flying it. One thing you would want to use would be your superior climb rate, not try to get slower/out turn it. The 109 is more of an energy fighter than anything else.

On the subject of trim, I usually find myself trimming the aircraft constantly. You can't really 'set it and forget it' once you start fighting, or you'll end up fighting the aircraft as the demands of the fight changes.

[Anaxogoras]

Against the F6F you need to keep the fight vertical, and I don't mean loops.  There's no reason why you shouldn't have an immediate energy advantage after a fair merge against the F6F with the 109G-2; the climbrate advantage is significant.

I have more hours in the 109 than any other AH plane, and the only time I turn combat trim off is during a high speed dive.

How about you post a film for review?

[RELIC]

Perhaps part of the problem is my underestimating the G2 vs the F6F.  I don't have a film but we were in tight and slow, fighting in the vert the entire time.  Also, I was having "one of those nights".  I was entirely too sober with no flying tunes - ya that's the problem. 
I will try turning combat trim on and see if that helps.  I've seen some amazing stick work by a few players in the German birds so I know it can be done.

[Anaxogoras]

Perhaps part of the problem is my underestimating the G2 vs the F6F.  I don't have a film but we were in tight and slow, fighting in the vert the entire time.  Also, I was having "one of those nights".  I was entirely too sober with no flying tunes - ya that's the problem. 
I will try turning combat trim on and see if that helps.  I've seen some amazing stick work by a few players in the German birds so I know it can be done.

In my experience, the best way to fight F6Fs in almost any plane is too keep the fight loose, i.e. the opposite of tight and slow.  The F6F has poor acceleration, so forcing your opponent to turn, accelerate, turn, accelerate will wear him down.

[trotter]

I rarely fly the 109 series - not very fond of the guns, views or the flight models, so I thought I'd pop in here for some help.
Last night I was flying the G2 and F4, prepping for the upcoming FSO, and was having a hard time with the flight model, especially of the G2.  Seems to me it's like trying to ride a bicycle on a railway line in a stiff wind.  I had combat trim off and tried flaps up and down with little effect.  Any tips on this bird?  What speed should I be trimming out at - does it help to be trimmed for level flight at lower or higher speeds?
Another question, I thought the G2 would be able to take an F6F in a stallfight but had one hell of a time last night - albeit the F6F was flown very well and I was in a bird I never fly - but shouldn't the G2 be able to handle the Hellcat?
Thanks in advance for any help.

Hi RELIC

Contrary to what some may say, I have not found the G2 to be the easiest to pick up of the 109's, that award goes to the F. Fly the 109F if you are looking for more of a pure stallfighter (even though the F does have some other tricks in the bag).

As for the G2, using it with combat trim is perfectly acceptable. The only exception is when your speed gets over 350-400, the 109 starts to lose elevator authority. Trim up to get yourself out of some nasty uncontrollable dives.

Fight vertical in the G2. You have 9 minutes of WEP, and it is a beastly climber with WEP. Some planes can still match you vertically (Spit16, LA-7, 109K) but...well there's a saying about speed/turn rate, and I think it applies to 109G2 climb rate/turn rate as well. Usually the saying is that anything that can out RUN you, you can out turn. With the 109G2, it's beauty is that pretty much anything that can out CLIMB you, you can out turn, or at least turn with competitively enough to bring the outcome determinant down to pilot skill.

And vice versa of course. Any turny plane will not be able to match you vertically.

So what does all this mean, all this "fight vertical"? It means keep your nose high when possible, use manuevers that convert your E into potential E by gaining altitude. You have a very good conversion rate by virtue of the 109's climb rate; you gain more potential E for every 1 mph of IAS lost than most planes. Other planes starting from the same E state won't be able to match your conversion rate (ie, they don't climb as well), so if they try to match your vertical manuevering you will be in possession of greater total E by the completion of your manuever (Total E can be defined as IAS + Potential E). Whether this means you find yourself co-alt with greater IAS, or at a higher alt with equal IAS, it does not matter, you now have more E.

As a final note, you mentioned stall fighting with a F6F. Don't. The F6F is one of the best turners in the game, I don't know where you got the impression otherwise. But you know what? It's climb rate is lackluster. If you meet a F6F co-E (unless that E is very high and therefore the zoom capability of the F6F comes into play), you should have no trouble at all winning the perch and thus winning the fight.

[RELIC]

Excellent info.  Sounds like I was overestimating the low speed abilities of the G2 - all part of the learning process.  I will adjust tactics accordingly and turn on the stall limiter.
Now if 5 o'clock would just hurry up and arrive.

[Lusche]

  I will adjust tactics accordingly and turn on the stall limiter.

Hell no!, Not the stall limiter! I hope you meant Combat Trim...

[RELIC]

LOL yes I meant Combat Trim!  Brain fart!