SICKO

[DYNAMITE]

^^^ agreed.

We have the best technology in the world... but we don't have the best health care.

[E25280]

the problem is their concern is to make money and not to help people, thats the fundemental problem with health insurance.

The purpose of any commercial endeavor is to make money.  And you have a problem with that?


Purchasing Insurance in any form is to protect you from loss.

Unfortunately, people in this country have come under the delusion that medical insurance is there to pay for all of your health care needs, from routine exams to lab tests to getting the sniffles as well as falling down the stairs and breaking your keester.

We don't expect our auto insurance to pay for our gasoline, oil changes or tires.  We expect it to pay if we have an accident.

If our health insurance was still based on the same philosophy, there would be less whining about it.  And it would be much cheaper.

[VonMessa]

Actually Rox, I was being a bit facetious.  I was trying to see how truly misinformed that the public is.

I worked at the Prudential Eastern home office in Horsham, PA for a while so I actually do know how it works.

As for my Liability coverage, I own a Disc Jockey business, so my risk is nil, at worst.  Unless someone trips over one of my cords (which I religiously secure with gaffer's tape), or dies of a heart attack while I'm teaching the 2-step or the Macarena, there is not much that an actuary can get excited about from my presence at an event.  That, coupled with my hefty "hold harmless" clause in my contract, keeps me pretty safe. 

[Anaxogoras]

The purpose of any commercial endeavor is to make money.  And you have a problem with that?


Purchasing Insurance in any form is to protect you from loss.

Unfortunately, people in this country have come under the delusion that medical insurance is there to pay for all of your health care needs, from routine exams to lab tests to getting the sniffles as well as falling down the stairs and breaking your keester.

We don't expect our auto insurance to pay for our gasoline, oil changes or tires.  We expect it to pay if we have an accident.

If our health insurance was still based on the same philosophy, there would be less whining about it.  And it would be much cheaper.

Two points:

Why do auto-insurance companies seem more reliable at paying out when something goes wrong than health insurance companies?  If our health insurance companies actually covered the things they say they will, instead of dropping people when they get sick, there would be far fewer of us calling for their necks.

Having an automobile is not a necessity of life.  Medical care is.  Capitalist societies do not require that there be a completely level playing field to leverage the full talent of their population and maximize prosperity, but they do require that basic necessities be met for all citizens so that talent and ambition have a chance at success.

[CAVPFCDD]

Two points:

Why do auto-insurance companies seem more reliable at paying out when something goes wrong than health insurance companies?  If our health insurance companies actually covered the things they say they will, instead of dropping people when they get sick, there would be far fewer of us calling for their necks.

Having an automobile is not a necessity of life.  Medical care is.  Capitalist societies do not require that there be a completely level playing field to leverage the full talent of their population and maximize prosperity, but they do require that basic necessities be met for all citizens so that talent and ambition have a chance at success.

what he said ^

it shouldn't be a corporation out to make millions when it comes to your health, it should be someone who wants to help you if you're sick.

It's really a moral issue I believe, these companies can afford to provide for someone if they're sick, they have enough money, but they just choose not to, which is just morally disgusting if you ask me, it's cold and heartless.

[E25280]

Two points:

Why do auto-insurance companies seem more reliable at paying out when something goes wrong than health insurance companies?  Not sure why you say health insurance companies are not reliable about paying claims.  They certainly are.  I have never had a health care claim denied, nor have I known personally anyone who has had a claim denied for anything other than a pre-existing condition.  Pre-existing condition exclusions are well known and publicized in advance in any health insurance package you would buy.  If our health insurance companies actually covered the things they say they will, instead of dropping people when they get sick, there would be far fewer of us calling for their necks.  As long as you did not obtain the policy under fraudulent conditions, any legitamate claim must be paid as per the contract.  Most policies are guaranteed renewable unless you stop paying your premiums.  Lots of hype, not much fact here.

Having an automobile is not a necessity of life.  Medical care is.  Not true.  I do not need to go to the doctor every time I have the sniffles.  I do not need to have someone else pay for me when I do.  Capitalist societies do not require that there be a completely level playing field to leverage the full talent of their population and maximize prosperity, but they do require that basic necessities be met for all citizens so that talent and ambition have a chance at success.  Capitalism has nothing to do with providing basic necessities to everyone for free.  You seem very confused on this point.

what he said ^

it shouldn't be a corporation out to make millions when it comes to your health, it should be someone who wants to help you if you're sick.  If there were not millions to be made, there would be no health care system.  No one would be a professional doctor if he were not paid to be so.

It's really a moral issue I believe, these companies can afford to provide for someone if they're sick Umm -- yah, because they charge for it  , they have enough money, but they just choose not to if they really did not pay what they were contractually obligated to pay, why would anyone purchase the coverage?, which is just morally disgusting if you ask me, it's cold and heartless. Cold and heartless to not provide something to someone who did not pay for it?   

The two of you seem by your comments to be the type of people I was talking about.  Health care is not a "right" -- it is a service.  A service of any kind must be paid for.  Period.

You don't like the way health insurance works?  Fine -- don't buy it.  Unless you are in the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts, AFAIK you are not FORCED to purchase health insurance.  So don't.  Just then be man enough to pay for whatever health care you think you need out of your own pocket, and don't expect me or the taxpayers to pay for it. 

If you are relatively young and healthy, and are lucky enough to remain so, you will probably spend less than what you would on your coverage.  Have an accident or serious illness, though, and you will regret it . . .

[CAVPFCDD]

" If there were not millions to be made, there would be no health care system.  No one would be a professional doctor if he were not paid to be so."

so theres no doctors in basically every single other country in the entire world? Because we are pretty much the only western country without socialized health care, so is that what you're saying all of europe and canada don't have doctors?


"Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness" I believe thats in the declaration of independence, well with no health care theres no life. It's one of our inalienable rights that this country is founded on. I'd be ok if we didn't go to socialized medicine, but the system we have needs to be fixed desperatly.

[E25280]

so theres no doctors in basically every single other country in the entire world? Because we are pretty much the only western country without socialized health care, so is that what you're saying all of europe and canada don't have doctors?

What?  You don't think the doctors in those other countries are getting paid?

[CAVPFCDD]

What?  You don't think the doctors in those other countries are getting paid?

you're saying people in this country are only doctors because they get paid, and since we established health care is a big buisness, the doctors here get paid alot. So I was being sarcastic since doctors don't get paid nearly as much anywhere else in the world.

[Wingnutt]

Doctors, but moreso pharmaceuticals in general rake in FAR more profit than they should..

Japan's health care system is not perfect, but we could certainly learn a lot from it.  Same goes for Germany, Switzerland and others..  They are all a little different but one thing they have in common, that is in stark contrast with ours is, it is quite literally unheard of for someone to have to file bankruptcy due to medical expenses..

and the argument "they live longer because they have more active lifestyles"

they also have lower infant mortality rates than we do, more people WITH insurance, and in general a higher % of the people living in these countries are please with the way their medical system is than in ours..



Doctors there live well, but are not super wealthy.  and the government keeps a lid on out of control drug and treatment pricing..   where in the US our policy is "charge what you want, they have insurance or if they dont, let them pay themselves, untill they die"

so in summation:

Them:
longer live expectancy
lower infant mortality rate
more people with insurance.
more people per capita approving of their health care system,

US:
Sky high hospital bills
doctors and pill pushers living in mansions.

yay.


a year ago, I had a torn medial meniscus in my knee, a very common injur among active people, not a hard operation to have, nothing exotic..orthoscopic as a matter of fact, 2 little holes, a little camera, and a little knife/grabber thingamabob, 1.5 hours on the table total.   $33,000......  a new car...    I have UNBELIEVABLE insurance, and all told went out of a pocket a total of ~$800   but regardless 33 grand is an absurd amount of money for a simple operation, no matter who ends up paying it.

[Shamus]

Doctors, but moreso pharmaceuticals in general rake in FAR more profit than they should..

Japan's health care system is not perfect, but we could certainly learn a lot from it.  Same goes for Germany, Switzerland and others..  They are all a little different but one thing they have in common, that is in stark contrast with ours is, it is quite literally unheard of for someone to have to file bankruptcy due to medical expenses..

and the argument "they live longer because they have more active lifestyles"

they also have lower infant mortality rates than we do, more people WITH insurance, and in general a higher % of the people living in these countries are please with the way their medical system is than in ours..



Doctors there live well, but are not super wealthy.  and the government keeps a lid on out of control drug and treatment pricing..   where in the US our policy is "charge what you want, they have insurance or if they dont, let them pay themselves, untill they die"

so in summation:

Them:
longer live expectancy
lower infant mortality rate
more people with insurance.
more people per capita approving of their health care system,

US:
Sky high hospital bills
doctors and pill pushers living in mansions.

yay.


a year ago, I had a torn medial meniscus in my knee, a very common injur among active people, not a hard operation to have, nothing exotic..orthoscopic as a matter of fact, 2 little holes, a little camera, and a little knife/grabber thingamabob, 1.5 hours on the table total.   $33,000......  a new car...    I have UNBELIEVABLE insurance, and all told went out of a pocket a total of ~$800   but regardless 33 grand is an absurd amount of money for a simple operation, no matter who ends up paying it.

And had you not had insurance the bill would have been $55,000.00.

An odd fact is that if you pay cash the bill is much higher than what the insurance companies pay.

[bongaroo]

And had you not had insurance the bill would have been $55,000.00.

An odd fact is that if you pay cash the bill is much higher than what the insurance companies pay.

I didn't know that.

[Anaxogoras]

Capitalism has nothing to do with providing basic necessities to everyone for free.  You seem very confused on this point.

Even Ayn Rand admitted that a functioning capitalist society taxes its citizens for basic necessities like police and the military.  All you are doing is denying that medical care is a basic necessity for life, and then cherry-picking trifles like the sniffles to prove your point.  We can have a laissez-faire health system in this country, like she might have envisioned, but that would require doing away with medical insurance all together--everyone pays out of pocket, doctors charge what you can afford, even nothing--is that politically possible?  I'm fine with that alternative, but the special interests of mega-billion insurance companies are entrenched.

[Angus]

Life expectancy anyone?

[sluggish]

Life expectancy anyone?
(Image removed from quote.)

This says nothing of our health care system.  It speaks volumes about our bad diet and high stress though - oh, and the fact that Japanese women are way too pampered.

ELEVEN MORE YEARS OF YOKO ONO!!  OH NO!!!