Ta 152H-1...what it is and what it is not ?

[Westy]

 Raubvogel, <S> . Neither of would have any success changing the others mind about the "produced/saw combat" so I thiungk agreeing that we can disagree is about as best we can do  

 As for Grunherz, you were born 80 years too late.

 As for the statement " "One of them said that he considerd the Ta152 his life insurence policy for the last few months of the war." .. What does that quantify? Nothing. It means a nothing and an aircrafts performance in no way shape or form can be deduced from it. Maybe it meant he could run? You make it sound like poof positive and vindication that the TA-152 was some kind of Wunderbird.

And from this "That's a quote from Walter Loos I believe.  He flew the plane in WWII and scored Kills in it.  That's a far cry from anyone on this entire board."    So what? Whether any of us had actual combat experience in the real world is irrelevant in this virtual computer simulation we "fly:" in. Your grasping at straws and saying stupid things like Grunhurz is.

 Ok. Since the TA-152 was a "life insurance policy"  I want the P-51 modelled accrording the best eye wintess acounts so that it can out climb, out turn from the deck to the stratosphere all 109's. And the P-047 hould be invulnerable because Robert Johnson and many others were abloe to keep on flying after taking enourmous and impossible amounts of damage.

 Stop talking out of your arsses and use facts. The facts show whjat TA-152's flew in combat and what were prototypes. The facts show (and from German/LW reports too!) just how it
performed. And I think that if you take a "light"  and ammo less Ta-152 up and a gaggle of Mustangs creeps up on your arse in the Main arena you should be able to hit the button and zoom away too.  Might as well be flying a Cessna for all the good that trick does you.
 
 -Westy

[Ash]

   I'm not surprised at comments made by some of the individuals here, but do you realize how much of a Pro-US/Allied AC Anti-anything else forum this has become? If specific facts/figures/data/selection of AC/views on WW II are not deemed acceptable by the "Great Triumvirate" and there followers, the presenter is literally executed when he try's defend his point of view. Funked, Verm, Westy, I respect you as pilots and as contributors to the AH community, however, your pedestals are starting to get a little too high.

Flame Away.

Ash

[Westy]

 Sorry if you perceive it that way Ash. I guess you could say I'm just trying to climb up high enough so that the pedastal I stand on is at least on the same level as the "LW was UBER but we suffers from a Pro-US Conspiracy" types.
 
 Facts always piss off the dreamers and those who worship. That's not necesary but it is a shame.

 -Westy

[funked]

Whatever Ash.  We are having a historical argument, discussing different sources of information.  That's how one learns stuff.  

If you don't like the facts that are presented, then do some research and make an argument based on that.  If you come up some new information from a good source I will be all ears.  Just don't start making personal attacks - stick to the facts.

Also if you are accusing me of bias, you can shove it where the sun don't shine.  The only thing I am biased against is roadkill spread by people who are so obesessed with one point of view that they ignore any contradictory information.  I've jumped on the Hog lovers for this (just ask DOA), P-47 lovers, P-51 lovers, Tempest lovers, 190 lovers, Spit lovers (even my own Wing Commander!) you name it.

My opinions are based on facts, not the other way around.


[This message has been edited by funked (edited 10-27-2000).]

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 10-27-2000).]

[funked]

LJK_Reschke, <S> I'm eager to hear what you find in Willi's book.

[HABICHT]

i would prever d9 instead of ta152.
we fight in 25k max and there the dora is
better.
and think of the deck speed. THEn, ponies have to FIGHT!

[Vermillion]

Strange, but I thought all I had done was share the data I had with you.

I never said anyone was wrong for wanting the Ta152, and never condemned it. I just pointed out that it might not be the "wunderweapon" that many think it may be.

I'm sorry if the official FW factory test data doesn't support your dream of an uber-152, but facts are facts.

Wasn't it Nath-BDP who started the "negative" side of this thread, when he started suddenly calling for a ban of the P-51H? I just pointed out that you can either have both the P-51H and the Ta152H1, or neither. Because the issue is the same with both.

And I have very good references and documents to back me up. If you have better data please present it.

Its strange that the Luftwaffe crew consider me so "Pro-Allied, anti-Axis", but I have equally defended the N1K2 (a Axis plane), protested against the first TWO versions of the P-38L (ask Citabria), and I vocally supported the Luftwaffe guys protests that the P-47 was too good. Not to mention that in each and every thread that the Luftwaffe fans have asked for the Dora, I agreed with them.

And I fly Axis in about 90% of all scenarios I have ever flown in, over the past 6-7 years of flying.

Yes, if I see some typical propaganda spouting bullcrap being spread on this board, I will step forward and present facts to counter it. But that doesn't make me "Pro-Anything". If I see roadkill from either side, I will call them on it.

Ah well, I'll end this now, its like trying to defend against the question "SO you beat your wife?"

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 10-27-2000).]

[Hamish]

 Dub Verm the official "roadkill Flag Waver"

 

Thx verm, always look forward to reading your posts, very informative  

Hamish!

[Dinger]

Look, if you can't handle your authorities being questioned, or if you can't defend the authorities you use and the methodology you employ, you have no business in an historical argument.  Get out of the kitchen!

[juzz]

Who went off topic first and started this mess? Burn the witch! Burn the witch!  

[M.C.202]

Does she weigh more than a JF-2 (Duck)?

------------------
M.C.202
Dino in Reno

[Staga]

Well; IMHO this one is better than this.
You guys are funny  

[Harpy]

My first time here, but not my last!!!

My info. indicates that the GJ301 was the only unit to fly the Ta152 in combat.

The prop was 60cm wide..........is extremely wide, excellent for high altitude.  Around 1943 Heinzbaer used to have a second aircraft, FW190 at his disposal which had a wooden prop of similar style (very wide) that he used.

The Ta152 could lift off in under 400meters w/o boost.

The Ta152 was an excellent turning platform not only at high altitude but also at low altitude.  It could easily catch/outturn a Tempest at low altitude "AS PER" Oberfeldwebel Josef Keil reported in one of the final Arial battles of the war when he was engaged with New Zealander Wt Off O J Mitchell . At low altitude Keil keep turning inside  O J Mitchell until his  left wing stalled and crashed.

Oberfeldwebel Josef Keil has 5 confirmed kills in a Ta 152-1

[Westy]

Hmmm. Geee. Ta-152. New topic? NOT!

-Westy