My god would you please quit with the arena crap Hitech!

[DamnedRen]

Assume both arenas are uncapped...blah blah blah (to cut down on repeat quotes). 
I think this is the 'herd concept' HiTech refers to.

Ok then. The herd arena is for the herdees (that a word? well it should be since the media makes up new words daily ) BUT Hitech says people have left because they don't want to be part of the herd. They'd prefer less loaded up arenas? If that's the case they can stay in Blue where they wanted to be in the first place. No one would push them away. If they are where they want to be and the rest of the herd is where they want to be + the rest of the players in other arenas are where they want to be who's leaving because they ain't having fun? See what I'm asking?

One thing to remember...the game costs $15 a month or 50 cents a day. Anyone buy a bottled water today? How about a case of em? Did you pay 50 cents a bottle for the case? Anyone smoke a pack a day? In most states you paid for AH2 in 3 days if you smoke a pack a day.  And NO, IM NOT ASKING PEOPLE SHOULD PAY MORE! I'm saying with the economy tanked the way it is growth may slow or even crawl. If your business was slowing to a crawl would you go out and update everything? Or maybe maintain a status quo until the economy turned the corner.

If this is the wrong time to ask for what appears to be possible but should be delayed then that is a very acceptable answer to me. Smart  corporate decisions keep businesses afloat. Here, here!  I'm currently holding a job....today.....not so sure about tomorrow...I'm probably not the only one in the same boat. The economy will turn. The real question is when. Perhaps, I'll say employed thru it. The main thing is this is a great game and I want to see it stay in business.

I think many folks use the game as an escape from RL. They make friends and enjoy a camaraderie of WW2 interest. I also think people accept hard decisions when forced on them to protect the integrity of the game. As long as there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Agree?

CM#1


 


 

[grizz441]

Ok then. The herd arena is for the herdees (that a word? well it should be since the media makes up new words daily ) BUT Hitech says people have left because they don't want to be part of the herd. They'd prefer less loaded up arenas? If that's the case they can stay in Blue where they wanted to be in the first place. No one would push them away. If they are where they want to be and the rest of the herd is where they want to be + the rest of the players in other arenas are where they want to be who's leaving because they ain't having fun? See what I'm asking?

One thing to remember...the game costs $15 a month or 50 cents a day. Anyone buy a bottled water today? How about a case of em? Did you pay 50 cents a bottle for the case? Anyone smoke a pack a day? In most states you paid for AH2 in 3 days if you smoke a pack a day.  And NO, IM NOT ASKING PEOPLE SHOULD PAY MORE! I'm saying with the economy tanked the way it is growth may slow or even crawl. If your business was slowing to a crawl would you go out and update everything? Or maybe maintain a status quo until the economy turned the corner.

If this is the wrong time to ask for what appears to be possible but should be delayed then that is a very acceptable answer to me. Smart  corporate decisions keep businesses afloat. Here, here!  I'm currently holding a job....today.....not so sure about tomorrow...I'm probably not the only one in the same boat. The economy will turn. The real question is when. Perhaps, I'll say employed thru it. The main thing is this is a great game and I want to see it stay in business.

I think many folks use the game as an escape from RL. They make friends and enjoy a camaraderie of WW2 interest. I also think people accept hard decisions when forced on them to protect the integrity of the game. As long as there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Agree?

CM#1

I've never even had a problem getting into the arena of my choice with little more than 2 minutes of effort anyways.  This is a circus.  HiTech has already explained very reasonably and patiently the reason for the caps and if you continue to ignore the facts for why the caps are good for gameplay, business, server health, then.. <facepalm>.  The only times in the day where it's hard to get into the capped arena is during a 30 min(or so) transition period in the middle of the day and during primetime for about 2 minutes of exiting, relogging, and trying to join again.  A small price to pay for two healthy arenas with good gameplay, an increase in customers, and a CHOICE of which arena/map you want to fly on in LW. 

HiTech said that if you have a problem with the cap system, suggest a better idea that accomplishes the same thing.  Two uncapped arenas will not accomplish the same thing.

[SlapShot]

Ok then. The herd arena is for the herdees (that a word? well it should be since the media makes up new words daily ) BUT Hitech says people have left because they don't want to be part of the herd. They'd prefer less loaded up arenas? If that's the case they can stay in Blue where they wanted to be in the first place. No one would push them away. If they are where they want to be and the rest of the herd is where they want to be + the rest of the players in other arenas are where they want to be who's leaving because they ain't having fun? See what I'm asking?

I believe that most of us do see what your asking ... what you are failing to see/understand was best described here ...

Assume both arenas are uncapped...

During Primetime if orange has 600 players and Blue has 200... before long Orange will have 650, blue will have 150.  There's always the desire to fly where everybody else is flying.  It's just human nature.  Then Orange will have 700, Blue will have 100.  All of a sudden there aren't enough players in Blue to have reasonable fun so they all flock to orange.  Orange 800 Blue 0. 

I think this is the 'herd concept' HiTech refers to.

End result ... 1 SLUM arena.

[stodd]

Only thing that really bothers me about arena caps is when the arena with Tank Town is up that is usually full and hard to get in. (im talking about the regular TT map not the newer one with 10bases crammed into 1 sector by the way )

[DamnedRen]

Response to Slapshot...

I saw that but how can it be a valid argument?

If the argument is for better game play with less people by some folks then those people need only go to Blue arena. What's so difficult to understand about that?

Unless someone is trying to say that of all people that fly in LW arena only 100 are truly upset with an uncapped arena?

What does that say about the people 700-800 alluded to be in the Orange arena? That sure seems like a lot of people who don't know what they want. If that leaves 100 people upset enough to quit and leave why are they replaced by another 100? And of those 100 are all just waiting to be one of the 100 or do they want to go into the Orange arena, too? So, if there is continual replacement of a small 100 but always a huge group in the big one are you saying they'd rather be in with the 100? If so, who's holding them back? The only people being held back are those wanting to get into the big arena.  

At no time, during prime time have I personally seen anyone have to wait to get into the Blue arena. Yet there is a continual waiting line to get into the Orange arena. Where are all these people that (for what ever their reasons are) say they hate bad game play and just want to be left alone in the Blue arena?

Ergo, 1 slum arena is the blue arena. I think I'm beginning to understand that maybe some of a small select few are complaining that they only want their own arena...not really 100 people strong but maybe 200-300. So they can be left alone, to do their thing. And leave the big arena to the big kids...The only problem appears to be that there MIGHT NOT BE 200-300 people that want to fly with the select 100 few?

So, the issue is the reverse of what presented...Cater to the select few so they can have fun at the detriment of all the rest. Ok, I am beginning to understand now. It sounds like history again is repeating itself. Those who were around long ago know what I'm talking about.

Not a problem. When I'm ready to get up again I'll just wait my turn....The few shall inherit the ea...err....AH2.

CM#1

Modified to say it's also interresting to note that no matter how filled up Orange gets on FSO it unloads for that. What does that say about Blue and the select few?

[Bruv119]

The few shall inherit the ea...err....AH2.

I have no designs or wish to become the lord and master of Aces High.   HT does an outstanding job already.

[DamnedRen]

I have no designs or wish to become the lord and master of Aces High.   HT does an outstanding job already.

  the few are not the lord and master but those who... yer trolling!....

[hitech]

I saw that but how can it be a valid argument?

Ahhhhh logic? Ahhhhh data that proves it?  Ahhhhh  basic intelligence? Ahhhhh A minimal understanding of cause and effect? Ahhhhh  simply opening your eyes and seeing how people behave?

[moot]

Ren how about those select few (a strawman appeal to ridicule) don't want to fly in a 60 player arena with a chance of it not even being even sided?  What if such an empty arena is even worse fun than a single slummed out arena?  What if those two are a choice between bad and worse, compared to a capped arena, or a couple of capped arenas with ENY-encouraged (or enforced when it gets outta hand, e.g. eny~13+) side balancing?  What if the only way to have such a balanced arena with the right range of players (E.G. over 100, under 500) is to cap the arenas?

What if the only way to keep players from not griefing each other, or to keep things playable due to human error, is to implement systems like FF killshooter?  Side switching time limits? And so on.  Sounds like that's precisely the reality of it. 

[Belial]

Hitech I ask again is a 3rd arena with a TT map a possibility?  Would give a good gv fight and furball all the time which alot of people love.

[hitech]

Hitech I ask again is a 3rd arena with a TT map a possibility?  Would give a good gv fight and furball all the time which alot of people love.

Is possible, but I do not believe it would see many people. Assuming TT means tank town?

[DMBEAR]

This is what I was calling BS on, and is why I do not even really do not even take your points as valid. The arenas are the same , and the terrain set is the same. When the basis of your argument is BS (like the terrain) and can only post screen shots of worst case scenarios of time frames, then you will not be taken seriously by me.

Here was my original quote

"What sucks worse than 1 arena is having two arenas and being told you have to go to the crappy one with a giant map and 15 people on each country.  Meanwhile. the arena you can't get in has a large % of people just sitting in the tower afk so that when they do want to play they won't be locked out."

I didn't say a giant crappy map.  I said a crappy giant map.  Crappy because of the #'s.  Kinda makes me think of Bill Clinton   , but I know there is no difference in the arenas themselves.  This is the 2nd time I have clarified that for you.

I do agree about human nature though.  Using that assumption, I would think that the arena which you know will be lighter in #'s should be a small map.

I guess my example is not valid because it is a worst case scenario?  Well, I guess people never use those in an argument.  

If pointing out the worst case scenarios is so bad, why not tell all of the Fanboys that using the best case scenarios that you will not take them seriously?  For example.  "I never have trouble getting in", or I prefer blue, "there aren't lame hordes there".

[999000]

HiTech, I appologize for the mean spirit and moment of utter frustration that this post was conceived.  I can only hope that some good can come from bad.....Many people have offered ideas ..I like the idea of areana's just being open or closed and not knowing the # of people in each.  Hitech can you comment on any ideas you  found plausible or maybe worth  pursuing?
Also any chance that titanic Tuesday could also become Titanic Thursday? ....just a thought...I know I'm and idiott but Tuesday is the day I look forward to the most.   
999000 <S>

[DamnedRen]

I think the slum'd out arena slapshot alluded to was the smaller one....no one there...slums, etc...

I'm the last guy too ridicule...remember? CM#1?

Ref 60 player arena, one sided....isn't that the complaint on another thread right now? 20 people up? 19 are in one country?
How do you cap the country? Make squadies fly against each other? Wait something about perk farming also.... Ah well that really is another story...

ENY enforcement is not a part of the conversation but since you mention it take a look at how many guys flock to the short country to be able to go find good fights? They are not necessarily there for perk planes but to have fun fights. Take another look and see how many peeps really change sides just because their side is currently short of flyers. Granted, there are a few that change so they get a chance to take a ride they can't afford but that is not the majority. IMHO side balancing is somewhat a waste of time but since it doesn't affect play so much no one really cares too much.

Yer also going off topic with Killshooter, etc. For kill shooter to be correct there should be NO IMPACT to friendly planes, including the guy who inadvertently flew through the bullet stream of someone because he was in such a hurry to pick the kill. Look back over some topics on the forums (I prolly can't find em cause Im a clueless moron) ref killshooter. It really isn't that difficult to fly thru some other guys stream and thereby "killshoot" him. That's as about as realistic as HO model. Come on, in RL, which I thought this game tried to emulate somewhat, if a guy ran through someone else stream he died. Not the guy who pulled the trigger. It understandable we need killshooter but artificially inducing kills that really should be the other way around is only good for a laugh, unless you're the guy die'n. The guys doing it on purpose sure are laughing. Makes ya wonder if anyone ever reviews the films with a drink in their hands are spillin their drinks for thinking that one up. How funny is that!!!  Come on now, they can do better than that!

Again off topic but side switching times limits will work...if the guys ain't over in the EW perk farmin    I guess no one thought of that. I guess if it limits perk farming for war wins but it's ok to perk in another arena then so be it.

Back on topic. I've been out of town for the past week so I haven't seen cap numbers but I suspect it's more like 100-300 with an occasional 100-400. I can't remember the last time I saw an arena cap of 100-500 but hey I'm just CM#1. 100-500 would be a good start though .

Note: times change, people change, equipment changes, thought processes change. What happened 4-5 years ago might not be what's happening now. Once tried, always died?

If I remember right there was a big push to create a huge multiplayer arena with tons of AI planes and earning rank. Kinda like a real aerial war game with missions. We even had a contest to name it. What's relevant is and I gotta dig back in my memory was that we'd have a 1000 person huge arena with missions. BUT! There would also be some of the original arenas for those that still wanted it.  When I look back and see arena caps it makes me wonder that it would or wouldn't have worked. 2 countries? Kinda like FSO. Every night?
In old days gone by it was fun to up a mission deep into enemy territory. When we finished everyone had a good laugh and we all went back to dogfighting. key words...back to dogfighting... I'm not here to say the idea was wrong. It was a great idea. But after the arena caps IMHO I'm not so sure it would last.

CM#1

[SlapShot]

What does that say about the people 700-800 alluded to be in the Orange arena? That sure seems like a lot of people who don't know what they want. If that leaves 100 people upset enough to quit and leave why are they replaced by another 100? And of those 100 are all just waiting to be one of the 100 or do they want to go into the Orange arena, too? So, if there is continual replacement of a small 100 but always a huge group in the big one are you saying they'd rather be in with the 100? If so, who's holding them back? The only people being held back are those wanting to get into the big arena.

Ren ...

You could come up with a billion different scenarios to support your point ... but the bottom line is that HT has access to the database and the "numbers" that prove his point ... and it's irrefutable. He was losing business and/or stagnant ... he split the arenas ... he has more subscribers now than he has ever had.

You keep ignoring the "human nature" aspect of what HT (and others) are trying to point out. If HT uncapped both arenas, it wouldn't be very long before Orange was the only LW arena that was being used due to the fact that eventually everyone, and even those who do prefer Blue at the moment, would eventually end up going to Orange.

Why do some people prefer Blue ? ... They like the "numbers" that are in that arena ... Why are there "numbers" in Blue ? ... because Blue catches the fallout from Orange and, for the most part, some who are forced to use Blue end up staying there for the night because they do/might get involved in the conflict and choose to stay for the night.

Take that away and Blue will have less numbers than EW and MW combined, if any at all, and Orange will become the "slum" that it was before the split.