Author Topic: H-1 saw combat--check yer sources  (Read 6229 times)

Offline Graywolf

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H-1 saw combat--check yer sources
« Reply #45 on: October 30, 2000, 02:09:00 PM »
Bah, I think all you people should stop whinging about all this late war/post war/someone's sketch on the back of a studmuffin packet in 1944 rubbish.

Gimmie a Spitfire Mk I and I'll take the lot of you on in whatever you want to fly, and I'll be happy about it =)

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Graywolfe <tim@flibble.org>

Nath-BDP

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H-1 saw combat--check yer sources
« Reply #46 on: March 12, 2001, 06:13:00 PM »
punt

Offline Widewing

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H-1 saw combat--check yer sources
« Reply #47 on: March 12, 2001, 11:38:00 PM »
   
Quote
Originally posted by Nath-BDP:
Sorry SnakeEyes, P51H never saw combat thus it shouldn't be in AH.

I have noticed that you have stated several times that the P-51H never saw combat. This is incorrect. On August 8, 12 and 14 1945, P-51H fighters attached to the VII Fighter Command were in action against Japan. In each instance, they were used as escorts for B-29 bombing missions over Japan. On only one of these missions did Japanese fighters attempt to reach the bombers. Three Ki-44 Tojos were clobbered by P-47Ns, also flying escort. The fact that no Japanese aircraft fell to the new Mustangs does not eliminate the fact that they were there, fully prepared to deal with any enemy activity.

Nonetheless, I also feel that the P-51H had a minimal effect on the war effort, and therefore, is probably not a good choice for this sim without some reasonable methodology of usage. In other words, this sim would soon boil down to Ta 152s vs the P-51H. No good for historical realism. Neglecting the historical accuracy will turn off many players.

Perhaps, HTC should consider 'rationing' late war fighters of marginal effect. In other words, allow no more that two or three in the arena at any given time. I would include the Ta 152H-1, P-51H, F7F-1, and He 162 as being within this category. Likewise,
the F4U-1C was a limited production aircraft (just 200 manufactured). Therefore the number available should reflect that fact. Likewise, if the P-47M ever makes this show, it too should only be available in very limited numbers.

While we're discussing possible inclusions in the 1.07, how can anyone rule out the P-47N? It was quickly becoming the primary long-range escort in the Pacific as the war wound down. With its 1,000+ mile combat radius, combined with very high speed, high altitude performance, it undoubtably was the best performing, 'high volume' fighter deployed by the USAAF during the war. Where is the F4U-4? Many more of these were in service than the F4U-1C. The F4U-4 was in high demand for CAP duty, where its excellent speed and climb were ideal for intercepting incoming suicide raids.

Other useful additions have been mentioned many times on this BBs. The Spitfire Mk.XIV, Ki-84, B-29A, B-25H, B-24H, P-61B, P-63A (in Russian colors), Yak-3, Ki-61 and its radial powered brother, the Ki-100. The Il-2, G4M, Bf 110 and 410, the Mosquito B.IV, P-40N, A-20G , A-26B, Me 262 and Ju 87 are all required to have a plane set that offers the kind of diversity that one comes to expect in a simulation of this kind. Compare the A-26B to the Arado 234. The Arado is much faster. However, it is virtually defenseless and must be considered rather weak wristed in bomb load. On the other hand, the A-26B was as fast as the best early-war fighters. It had a low level turning radius comparable to the P-47D. With as many as 16 (that's right, 6 in the nose and up to 10 more in underwing packs) forward firing .05 caliber MGs, and a bomb load up to 4,000 lbs internally with another 2,000 under the wings, it could deliver the goods. Not only did it offer devastating firepower, it was an order of magnitude more durable and reliable than the Arado 234. Where's the A-26B? God knows, Invaders flew more combat sorties in any given month than all combat sorties flown by every operational Arado combined during its entire deployment.

Here's a tip for those folks who never seem to have much opportunity to enjoy the high altitude preformance of their fighters. Use your heavy bombers at altitudes above 25,000 feet. There's an old saying, "where the bomber fly, the air war is fought." The higher the bombers fly, the worse the Japanese and Russian fighters perform. The best way to eliminate the low altitude performance of the N1K2, is make it come up to 28,000 feet to tackle the heavies. Up there, the George is a real pig. Never fight the way your enemy fights best.

I realize that including all of the above aircraft will require serious time and effort. However, wouldn't it be that much more enjoyable if all the major combat aircraft were represented? I think so.

My regards,

Widewing

[This message has been edited by Widewing (edited 03-12-2001).]
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline fscott

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H-1 saw combat--check yer sources
« Reply #48 on: March 13, 2001, 02:52:00 AM »
I can't figure out for the life of me who the heck really cares whether the Ta152 saw combat or not. It is so crappy under 20k it isn't even worth getting paid perk points to fly it.  The AH version of the Ta152 certainly doesn't have the "maneuverabvility" that it was apparently known for against those Tempests.

fscott

Offline juzz

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H-1 saw combat--check yer sources
« Reply #49 on: March 13, 2001, 03:18:00 AM »
Widewing, don't you realise that no-one will ever have to climb their N1K2-J to 28k to intercept stratobuffs™ in AH, because they can simply take a more suitable plane for the job(eg: 109)...

Offline straffo

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H-1 saw combat--check yer sources
« Reply #50 on: March 13, 2001, 03:28:00 AM »
This kind of discution about my plane saw combat and not your is : childish or Brain bananaing   ("Branlette intellectuelle" en bon français  ).
And I think that the HTC team as introduced the Perk Point to manage this kind of problem .

Offline GRUNHERZ

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H-1 saw combat--check yer sources
« Reply #51 on: March 13, 2001, 03:35:00 AM »
Ive flown Nikis at 28k and above, they perform extremly well much better than P51 at that alt in every way save top speep, at 28k it outaccelerates a P51, outclimbs it by a wide margin- every time a 51 tried utclimbing me in niki at 28k I closed the distance rapidly until the 51 was forced to dive away, and of course turn and all the niki ufo wonderments still work at 28k, so id say why bother with ta152 just fly a niki when u need 30k fighter. This is just from my experience as an all too frequent niki dweeb, tho im recovering now.  


Offline Widewing

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H-1 saw combat--check yer sources
« Reply #52 on: March 13, 2001, 07:19:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
Ive flown Nikis at 28k and above, they perform extremly well much better than P51 at that alt in every way save top speep, at 28k it outaccelerates a P51, outclimbs it by a wide margin- every time a 51 tried utclimbing me in niki at 28k I closed the distance rapidly until the 51 was forced to dive away, and of course turn and all the niki ufo wonderments still work at 28k, so id say why bother with ta152 just fly a niki when u need 30k fighter. This is just from my experience as an all too frequent niki dweeb, tho im recovering now.  

If the N1K2 performs that well at this altitude, then it badly mis-modeled. 28K, it should have trouble beating a VW microbus in acceleration (with the parking brake set).  

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Naudet

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H-1 saw combat--check yer sources
« Reply #53 on: March 13, 2001, 08:49:00 AM »
I want to say a few words to the above discussion. I find it funny that anyone wants to press a plane into AH action without looking at its effect on game balance.
In AH the plane should be charaterised by power class or develepment year.

i.e. as a mid '44 plane there would be the P51D, the FW190D9, the ME109G-10, the KI 84, the N1K1, the Spit XIV etc.

Now we with 1.06 HTC has added the '45 year birds TA152, Tempest and Ar234 as perkies.

And i as LW fan see np in adding in the P47M+N and the P51H.

It plays no rule if the plane scored any victories in WW2 or saw at least limeted action.

If we get i.e. an Axis jet fighter like the ME262, why not give the dedicaded Allied pilots the Gloster Meteor MK. I??

What drove me crazy before 1.06 was that i as LW pilot had to fight P51s and N1K1s with a FW190A8, were i knew that the LW actually had a power horse that played in the same class as the P51D and the N1K1.
Only if ur dedecicated country never developed a plane in such a "weight class" u have to live with it. i.e. u will never see an italian jet fighter cause (as far as i know) there never was one.

On the other hand, if u use arguments like "they must have taken part in combat", u must be consequent. Than u would also have to devide between european theatre and pacific, Axis and allies. In WW2 a N1K1 never fired at a FW, but they do in AH, this is not historicly right and ain't real, so u have to bann it.

But AH is a game and one aspect of a game is that u can pit planes vs. each other that never fired a shot at each ohter in WW2, and u can fly the "dreammachines" of all sides.

[This message has been edited by Naudet (edited 03-13-2001).]