Living forever

[BnZs]

That the same ridiculously large social programs we have today won't be all over this one?Why?  How do you see governments not making this available to everyone?  How would such a huge portion of the human population stand for such an injustice? 

I imagine such a treatment would be enormously complex and expensive. Health care for everyone is already an enormous drain...this on top of treating everything else? Would be folly to try.

BTW, there would be no "injustice" if you couldn't get it because you couldn't pay for it. Anytime anyone gets something for nothing, someone, somewhere, got nothing for something. That is injustice, at least when it is a product of compulsion. Not that there would not be social upheaval over this issue...we're really good at riots and other ultra melontery as a species...only it wouldn't be "justifiable" upheaval.

[BnZs]

Ok... So back in 1950 or 1930 it was unreasonable to say that we'd soon land on the moon, but not after 1969.  Is that what you're saying?  That it's unreasonable to say we'll cure aging, until we do? Thousands of years of snail paced tech progress and millions of years of cognitive development outweigh 200 years of scientific advance?  Is that the argument?

Your edit - That's how it'll happen at first, but there's no reason to stop there, that I can see.

It was hardly unreasonable to say we'd land on the moon in 1930. The basic way we did it had been conceived, in what, the 19th century? And probably could have been conceived by the Chinaman who invented the gunpowder rocket in the first place?

The cell though...that is a machine that still remains beyond anything we've ever built in complexity.

[moot]

I imagine such a treatment would be enormously complex and expensive. Health care for everyone is already an enormous drain...this on top of treating everything else? Would be folly to try.

BTW, there would be no "injustice" if you couldn't get it because you couldn't pay for it. Anytime anyone gets something for nothing, someone, somewhere, got nothing for something. That is injustice, at least when it is a product of compulsion. Not that there would not be social upheaval over this issue...we're really good at riots and other ultra melontery as a species...only it wouldn't be "justifiable" upheaval.

The injustice would be governments that let dozens of millions of people die every year due to something that has a cure available.  Why do you imagine that economies of scale wouldn't apply here?  Why do you imagine that healthcare costs would increase when people would live healthier, longer, and population would fall?

It was hardly unreasonable to say we'd land on the moon in 1930. The basic way we did it had been conceived, in what, the 19th century? And probably could have been conceived by the Chinaman who invented the gunpowder rocket in the first place?

The cell though...that is a machine that still remains beyond anything we've ever built in complexity.

Please show how adding 50 to 200 years to our lifespan in the next 50 years (is that the figures you're thinking of?) is definitely fantasy.

[BnZs]

The injustice would be governments that let dozens of millions of people die every year due to something that has a cure available.  

This is more of a sidepoint, but...

It is possible you will die soon and I could prevent this by putting time, money, and effort into improving your health. It is possible, yet if I don't do so, I am not negligent in my duties, I am not treating you unjustly. If I do choose to help you, that is going above and beyond, that is postively a "good deed".

But if I don't any resources of my own to help you, and decide to point a gun at someone else and compel them to give over some of their labor/resources to take care of you with, that IS injustice. In fact, that is a form of slavery.

[moot]

I'm not demanding anything from you personally.  I'm saying there's no difference from govt's distribution of collected taxpayer money into what serves the taxpayer best, right now, and into an eventual cure for aging.  The same way it funds a cure for cancer, or alzheimer's or any other illness, or funds the FAA for pax's safety, and so on.  The taxpayers give to the govt so that it provides health care, which a longer and healthier lifespan would be.  The same way it directly or indirectly funded what brought us from medieval health to today's.

[druski85]

I feel like this argument is rather...moot...until we move closer to attaining this.  Therefore I will apply a Tolkien reference here, as it holds roughly the same weight in terms of practicality. 

In the world of middle earth, the "gift of men" is mortality.  Only by knowing death is coming to greet them can men truely appreciate what is in front of them.

[SFRT - Frenchy]

I'll take immortality, I spent and will keep on spending my life working on improving myself. I came a long way and learn many skills. This is what being alive means, it saddens me that all that will be lost when I die. Plus, a lifetime is not enought for all the stauff I have left to learn.

[RTHolmes]

Okay, two things to consider.

1.Many industrialized nations are now actually near zero population growth.

2. People who can develop the technology to beat natural aging will have long since developed the technology to colonize space and have practically infinite resources to support human life.

agreed

I think Iain M Banks has it pretty much nailed for long term human development (if you havent read any of his culture novels you should ) that is; gross genetic manipulation to banish disease and the effects of ageing (and for enhancement), memory backups for reinstatement after catastrophic accidents (ie death). combine that with effectively unlimited resources via technology and you get the situation where humans live for several hundred years and chose to check out when they've seen and done everything they want to, ie they get bored.

[BnZs]

agreed

I think Iain M Banks has it pretty much nailed for long term human development (if you havent read any of his culture novels you should ) that is; gross genetic manipulation to banish disease and the effects of ageing (and for enhancement), memory backups for reinstatement after catastrophic accidents (ie death). combine that with effectively unlimited resources via technology and you get the situation where humans live for several hundred years and chose to check out when they've seen and done everything they want to, ie they get bored.

Add swordfights to that and I'm in...

[BnZs]

  The same way it directly or indirectly funded what brought us from medieval health to today's.

From Medieval medicine today?

For the most part, it was always some scientist/doctor/heretic who wanted to solve puzzles/make money/make a name for himself who invented the treatments. Rich bastiges who wanted to live forever are what funded it.

[Dano]

I for one, am going to live to 200, or die trying! 

No sense in worrying about life, no one gets out alive anyway. 

[mechanic]

Is that the extent of your argument, batfink?

Is that the extent of your answer to my question? I geuss you are scared of death.

[33Vortex]

I don't recall who said it, but it was someone smart.

"The secret to eternal life is to live worth remembering."

[moot]

I feel like this argument is rather...moot...until we move closer to attaining this.  Therefore I will apply a Tolkien reference here, as it holds roughly the same weight in terms of practicality. 

In the world of middle earth, the "gift of men" is mortality.  Only by knowing death is coming to greet them can men truely appreciate what is in front of them.

Moot counterpoint, since you wouldn't be immortal, and death would be that much more costly to someone who'd lived for whole centuries.

For the most part, it was always some scientist/doctor/heretic who wanted to solve puzzles/make money/make a name for himself who invented the treatments. Rich bastiges who wanted to live forever are what funded it.

That's irrelevant.

I imagine such a treatment would be enormously complex and expensive. Health care for everyone is already an enormous drain...this on top of treating everything else? Would be folly to try.

So I guess this is the only concrete argument to hinge your opposition on.

Is that the extent of your answer to my question? I geuss you are scared of death.

Thanks for contributing. Bye now.

[1pLUs44]

And you called me a crackpot for wanting to live naturaly as an animal.

Do you have any idea how many births and deaths there are globaly every minute? You don't 'cure' age. You would destroy life.

Are you scared of death, moot?

I'm pretty sure everyone is.