Author Topic: Torque Modeling  (Read 1177 times)

Offline Naudet

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Torque Modeling
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2001, 01:45:00 AM »
Cuba, AH planes slip.

Do the following:

Take a plane up, deactivate combat trim and trim the bird lets say for 300 mph. Than fly a turn. U will see that the ball will move.


Btw, i think Mr. Shaw did something real stupid when using that example for torque effect. With every other plane, i would say it is possible, but for a FW190 its definitively the usuall low speed turn stall.

The P38 pilot stated a speed of 150 mph, this in a speed at which the P38 can turn better than the FW190. And so if the FW190 pilot tries to follow he will stall.

I really though, such an air-combat expert as Shaw would know that.

Offline Cuba

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Torque Modeling
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2001, 08:41:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Naudet:
Cuba, AH planes slip.
Do the following:

Take a plane up, deactivate combat trim and trim the bird lets say for 300 mph. Than fly a turn. U will see that the ball will move.

Ok, I tried it.  I took a P51, 75% fuel, to 10k.  Got to 300 mph, and made a left turn.  In this case the ball does indeed shift to the left, but only in response to back pressure on the stick. If you bank to the left and do not pull back on the stick, the ball will stay centered.

As I noted in my last post, if you make a RIGHT hand turn, the ball doesn't drop to the inside to indicate slip, it will stay centered unless you pull back on the stick, at which point it will go to the LEFT, as in a left hand turn, indicating a skid rather than slip.

I next took a P-38.  Whether you go left or right, the ball stays centered, and does not react to pressure on the stick.  I believe this is because the FM takes into account the counter-rotating props, which cancel out gyroscopic precession.

Now we may be seeing the same thing but calling it different things.  When I say the ball doesn't move, I mean in any significant amount.  It does move some, but in any of the turns I made, it never got outside of the two centering lines, unless I moved the stick back.

In MS Flight Sim and Combat Sim, the ball will fall well outside the centering lines whenever you put the plane into a left or right bank, and you need to apply left rudder in a left turn, and right rudder in a right turn to coordinate the turns.

Offline Glasses

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Torque Modeling
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2001, 11:36:00 AM »
This is one of the things sorely missed from the new FM . The monster torque we all enjoyed as one of the flight elements found in aircraft. I conquer with Daff that in RL these small aircraft with 180HP engine produce more torque than any found in sims. I do think that pre FM change AH was the only one who modeled the monster torque found in  all these high performance aircraft. There was something said a while back that there was something wrong in all aircraft with spiraling slipstream effects and that they would of looked into it, I don't know how far this has come to or if they did anything to it.

But I do believe torque effects as they were, and are supposed to be portrayed, could be hightened.

[ 11-21-2001: Message edited by: Glasses ]

Offline Voss

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Torque Modeling
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2001, 10:54:00 PM »
Well, we do see some 'torgue roll' effect now, and there is a slight asymmetric propellor blade effect (P-factor) in high angles of attack. What I don't see is the monstrous tendency for high-horsepower tail draggers to swing counter-clockwise in the early stages of acceleration (if there ever was it's disappeared). Worse, you can dump the power to it and there is no catastrophic effect.

No, I don't use the dweeb trim at all. You don't have to.

[ 11-22-2001: Message edited by: Voss ]