Why so few people?

[Chilli]

All the arena is missing is a single squad that dedicates some, if not the majority of it's time to populating the arena.  Anytime that you get 5 or more "active" players in the arena, the game play is as good as it gets in AHII.

Thanks Jaeger. 

love the comments by people that never play. good show boys. funny i always have a great time in there. the guys are friendly, the fights are fair, and of course there the gentleman's gentleman oldman to look forward too also. as for all your lovely comments, "what have you done for the AVA lately??"  -- oh yeah and before i forget...........IN!!

Things are always changing.  For those that rely on their memories, it puzzles me why there is a need to comment on an AvA that has gone through some major changes in the last few months.    Is it some sort of need to gloat that an arena that is in fact the equivalent of a 24 hour FSO planeset, is empty?  As with most Special Events, they are set at times that sadly, I and a number of other Aces High players are unable to attend. 

The misconception that 200 needs to be de-tuned has added to the "stand offish" feel to new participants.  Also, it smells more like the Main Arena, where dogfights are avoided unless there is a clear advantage on the side of the attacker.

Flying in the AvA with the number of excellent pilots who "regularly" populate the arena, for the feel of historical matchups, has given me the opportunity to develop strategies to employ when fighting at a disadvantage as well.  So, you can have your 109 versus 190 or Zeke Early War and Mid War arenas, they have nothing besides slightly better numbers and easy perk points to offer. 

So, anyone brave enough to get over themselves and prove that they can give new ideas a chance to work, are invited to put up (join in on the fun) or ......................

[humble]

So, anyone brave enough to get over themselves and prove that they can give new ideas a chance to work, are invited to put up (join in on the fun) or .........


Here again we see the reality and the depth of the problem. Any objective criticism is instinctively dismissed in a knee jerk manner and an attempt to ridicule or somehow diminish the source is made. For the sake of dialogue I'll address the points made...

1) very little functional change has occurred in the AvA, it's the same people in a different package....

2) FSO is nothing about the plane set, there is no comparison (sadly) between FSO and the AvA functionally. The AvA is not and does not measure up to any "special event".

3) The pilot skill in the AvA is not any better and I rarely have seen any indication of individual quality ACM or an inclination to dogfight from a disadvantage from a majority of the player base. Again there are always exceptions to any blanket statement like that.

I've been here (AH) since the 1st open beta, I've flown "FR" WW2 flight sims (AW) since 1993 or so. I've got a pretty good idea of where I fall in the pecking order. I'm certainly not the best and I'm far from the worst stick in the game. The functional reality is that I can fly an SBD about as effectively as the average AH pilot flies a spit XVI. I really don't have anything to "get over" and nothing to "put up". On thise very rare occasions I see any action in the AvA I'll pop in...but the thought that you somehow have a better bicycle is really the heart of the problem here....you simply do not.

[Larry]

Simple fact is that the AvA isn't for everyone. Those that like it play there often and mainly have good things to say about it. For a few years I only played for AvA/CT and hardly ever stepped into the MAs. IMO it was and still is the best place to get better faster. Those that don't like it, for what ever reason/excuse, are usually the ones that come on the boards and badmouth the arena and those who fly there. You can see a few of them are already here. Funny thing is you only see them in the arena two maybe three times a year, and they never try to help the arena. They are always talking about how the arena used to be and how its so crappy now. Yet they never go in and try to fix the 'problems' they see in the arena. You never see them talking to the CMs giving them ideas to improve game play. They just squeak and whine here on the boards and call it 'objective criticism'. If they really wanted to change the arena they would take the time to do it, but they don't want it to change. They want it to stay the same so they will have something to cry about when they see a thread like this.



What really killed the CT/AvA was AHII nothing more nothing less. You will see some of those people try to deny that but I was there before and after and let me tell you, before AHII came out we had tons of maps and 20-30people in there a night. It went from that to 5 people a night if you were lucky. After AHII many people didn't have the computers to run it and had to quit. We lost our CO and a few more from our squad alone. We had no AvA maps and had to use MA maps for months which kept others away. They didn't like coming into a limited planeset arena when the MA had the very same map with all planes enabled. AHII was a blow to CT/AvA that it never recovered from.

[Oldman731]

Any objective criticism is instinctively dismissed in a knee jerk manner and an attempt to ridicule or somehow diminish the source is made.

We don't mind hearing objective criticism.  But usually all we get are generalities.  This thread is yet another example.  Other than saying things like "the attitudes are bad," just what is it that people think should be changed?  Specifics would be helpful, changes we could actually make.

Over the years (yes, it's been years...I really AM old...) I've seen good people leave because historical tactics are discouraged, and I've seen good people leave because historical tactics make for poor fights.  I've heard complaints that this has become a furballers' arena, and complaints that our base capture or strategic objective wars make game play uninteresting ("Hey, I can get this in the MA!").  People complain that the settings are too hard, people complain that they're too easy.  (The most common complaint - that some of the people were too mean in their Channel 200 conversations - has largely been remedied.)  My own sense is that it's a combination of Uptown's initial observation that limited plane sets limit the number of people who will come here, together with Humble's (correct, in my opinion) view that the player base has changed significantly in a way that has lost us many of the historians.

So put up or shut up, folks.  What changes could we make that would bring you into the arena on a regular basis?

- oldman

[Larry]

So put up or shut up, folks.  What changes could we make that would bring you into the arena on a regular basis?

- oldman

More sheep that would be kept away from jaeger and tyrant. After those two are done with them the sheep are never the same.

[captain1ma]

i represent that!!!........oops! 

[humble]

the CT died way before AH2 but thats another issue....

The original poster asked a question and I tried to give an objective answer. I can't speak for anyone else but the reality is I don't "need" the AvA so I have no motivation to try and change it since the core group likes it how it is and doesn't really want to change it. View it from this perspective, many folks like me can stop in a few times a year and observe things and say its the same as it has been yet those inside feel massive changes. While an individual component may have been altered the interaction and overall feel is the same to the rest of us.

Again if it was really different people would be there. The AvA bears no resemblance to the CT of 2002/2003 (its high water mark). By mid 2004 the CT was already dead. What made the CT of that era "special" was the people who populated it, not the plane set itself. All you need to do is read the posts here from the people who actually fly in the AvA (with exception of oldman) to realize where and what the issue is....

[Larry]

All you need to do is read the posts here from the people who actually fly in the AvA (with exception of oldman) to realize where and what the issue is....

Or look at the people that never fly the AvA and only come in here to say bad things about it. Again another big issue that keeps people away from the arena.

[Anaxogoras]

So put up or shut up, folks.  What changes could we make that would bring you into the arena on a regular basis?

Hmmmmm...

• No bomber drones, they warp.
• Ack at 1.0 lethality
• Enemy icons at 3k
• Incorporate ENY and perks to encourage the use of less capable aircraft
• AvA arena moved to a server that isn't shared with the main arena

[Masherbrum]

the CT died way before AH2 but thats another issue....

The original poster asked a question and I tried to give an objective answer. I can't speak for anyone else but the reality is I don't "need" the AvA so I have no motivation to try and change it since the core group likes it how it is and doesn't really want to change it. View it from this perspective, many folks like me can stop in a few times a year and observe things and say its the same as it has been yet those inside feel massive changes. While an individual component may have been altered the interaction and overall feel is the same to the rest of us.

Again if it was really different people would be there. The AvA bears no resemblance to the CT of 2002/2003 (its high water mark). By mid 2004 the CT was already dead. What made the CT of that era "special" was the people who populated it, not the plane set itself. All you need to do is read the posts here from the people who actually fly in the AvA (with exception of oldman) to realize where and what the issue is....

This is another excellent post by Snaphook. 

[Larry]

Hmmmmm...

• No bomber drones, they warp.

  Then bombers get ate up by fighters.

• Ack at 1.0 lethality

Then people run to ack when they get into a fight they cant handle.

• Enemy icons at 3k

  Think the only time they aren't at 3k is when the settings get fubared.

• Incorporate ENY and perks to encourage the use of less capable aircraft

This can be done by putting rare or 'new' planes at limited bases. Mainly don't with jets/temps. ENY doesn't work well with small numbers as you can see here. http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,264423.0.html

• AvA arena moved to a server that isn't shared with the main arena

  This needed to be done months ago. Titanic Crapday ruined the mission the other week because it ran for three days.
[/list]

[humble]

Or look at the people that never fly the AvA and only come in here to say bad things about it. Again another big issue that keeps people away from the arena.

I do fly the AvA on occasion and it is indeed "same old same old". The issue here isn't what any one person says (including me). It's a fundamental willingness to actually pull your head out of your.... and stop saying "my .... doesn't stink" and view the issues objectively. The population as a whole repeatedly steps up and says "you" (the collective AvA) aren't worth the time or effort yet some sort of elitist "we're better then them" mentality continues to exist with no apparent basis in reality.

[Larry]

You have around four hours total flight time in the AvA in the past 12 months. No you don't fly it on occasion. You spend more time squeaking about people who actually spend time in the arena then you do flying in it. I am better then you. I try my damnedest to put weekly missions together and to bring good clean fights to the arena. What have you done? Nothing. Until you do I WILL be better then you because at least I try, and that's a hell of a lot more then you do.


Spend some time in the arena before you put it and the people that DO spend time in it, and maybe just maybe you might see what some of us are talking about.

[antivortex]

Incorporate ENY and perks to encourage the use of less capable aircraft Uh no... leave the ma in the ma.

How about create specific aircraft only available in the AvA, yeah I know thats most likely a dream. Though right now you could limit certain skins to only be available in the AvA or only enable the skins you would actually see in the specific confrontation for that weeks senario.

[humble]

You have around four hours total flight time in the AvA in the past 12 months. No you don't fly it on occasion. You spend more time squeaking about people who actually spend time in the arena then you do flying in it. I am better then you. I try my damnedest to put weekly missions together and to bring good clean fights to the arena. What have you done? Nothing. Until you do I WILL be better then you because at least I try, and that's a hell of a lot more then you do.


Spend some time in the arena before you put it and the people that DO spend time in it, and maybe just maybe you might see what some of us are talking about.

Hmmm....

All I did was answer the guys question, trust me when I say I know more about whats wrong with the AvA then you do. If you did know what was wrong you'd fix it. Obviously the desire and effort are there but not the results....since its empty most of the time.