Author Topic: Just can't turn need help  (Read 1928 times)

Offline Dawger

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Re: Just can't turn need help
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2009, 09:24:44 AM »
Don't turn harder, turn smarter.

Place your lift vector in front of the bandit and pull.

Offline slyguy

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Re: Just can't turn need help
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2009, 08:53:16 PM »
Don't turn harder, turn smarter.

Place your lift vector in front of the bandit and pull.

Why is it just because I said I have a problem with my plane responding to turns everyone assumes ALL I do is flat turn and have no idea what I am doing?  :rofl   It was a scaling and stability issue with my stick.  Problem solved.  I am way beyond the entry level fundamentals.


Offline WMLute

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Re: Just can't turn need help
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2009, 01:11:02 PM »
ok, now I GOTA know...


What is your AH CPID in game? (slyguy)
"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."
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Absurdum est ut alios regat, qui seipsum regere nescit

Offline Agent360

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Re: Just can't turn need help
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2009, 04:41:33 PM »
I appreciate the remedial suggestions on the 109 but I am beyond those ya big sillies  :salute 
...snip...

Will due respect.  I mean no insutls here and am only posting what I think about the situation.

If its not your stick..not your stick settings...not your plane....and not your fist...then there is only one thing left.........Your tactics...or "YOU". You have eleminated everything else.

Either one or all of these things are happening to you.
1. You are being out yoyo'ed on the horizontal.
2. You are being out climbed/stall turned on the verticle
3. You are being out rolling scissored.
4. or all of these at once.

It's all a matter of...."the angle of the dangle"

The answer isnt anything "complicated". The solution to your problem lies in the basics.... throttle controll and angles. Ace drivers can make an almost invisible low or high yoyo. When engaged in a turn fight trying to win angles on the horizontal line one can make very shallow to slight low or high yoyo's and cut you off in 1 or 2 turns. These yoyo's are hard to detect. The two circles are being manipulated on an axis. The bandit tilts his circle off angle 5 or 10 degrees. This makes his circle oblique ( the ends of the oval are the yoyo's, the sides are where the gun solutions are). The defender stays in a flat or more circular circle. The attacker can use throttle control to change the shape of the oblique circle and get repeaded shots on the defender as he yoyo's up and down across your rounder circle. From the defenders perspective this looks like an attacker who is sliding from high to low..it often looks like the attacker is struggling or nearly stalling to stay with you when in reality he is in complete control and managing his AOT to you.

BTW..if you spot this tactic it is a great oppurtunity to turn things around into a rolling scissor and get out of his guns.

I use this tactic all the time to "out turn" turny planes in a 109K4. It's not really out turning them but is looks like it when they are looking back at me.

If you have position and sufficient speed you can start with standard low or high yoyo's to force them into harder break turns to bleed more of their E. Now you can close seperation and turn inside with the shallow yoyo and get the ...ownage 100 out..I caught your prettythang$ kill shot.

All the while that pesky spit 5 is thinking....heheh I'm gonna be on his six in two turns....until your chopping his tail off with your prop and spattering brains all over his cockpit.... :devil

I really recommend you visit the TA just for a few sorties and get one of the trainers to practice with you. Its always the basics that end up resulting in ownage.

If you can't do properly timed and calculated yoyo's against a turning bandit you won't be able to get any kills in a turn fight. It only get worse the more turns you make. Each one has to be done correctly or he get your six by flat out turning you.

Agent360

Offline pervert

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Re: Just can't turn need help
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2009, 05:47:52 PM »
Why is it just because I said I have a problem with my plane responding to turns everyone assumes ALL I do is flat turn and have no idea what I am doing?  :rofl   It was a scaling and stability issue with my stick.  Problem solved.  I am way beyond the entry level fundamentals.



If you don't want people to try and help you don't post your problems here your original post was pretty vague other than I can't turn.

Offline ImADot

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Re: Just can't turn need help
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2009, 06:07:20 PM »
Will due respect.  I mean no insutls here and am only posting what I think about the situation.

If its not your stick..not your stick settings...not your plane....and not your fist...then there is only one thing left.........Your tactics...or "YOU". You have eleminated everything else.

...


Wow, nice write-up but you apparently didn't notice this a couple of messages earlier:

...
It was a scaling and stability issue with my stick.  Problem solved.  I am way beyond the entry level fundamentals.
My Current Rig:
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NVidia GTX 970 4Gb ACX 2.0
Track IR, CH Fighterstick, CH Pro Throttle, CH Pro Pedals

Offline ImADot

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Re: Just can't turn need help
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2009, 06:11:29 PM »
If you don't want people to try and help you don't post your problems here your original post was pretty vague other than I can't turn.

Useless reply, and you must not have read most of the thread.

I appreciate the remedial suggestions on the 109 but I am beyond those ya big sillies  :salute 

The first two responses inspired me to read a little more on stick configuration and I changed my scaling.  There appears to be an improvement not only in turning and going into the vertical but overall stability, which I believe is the predicate here.

Sounds like he found the help he was looking for.
My Current Rig:
GigaByte GA-X99-UD4 Mobo w/ 16Gb RAM
Intel i7 5820k, Win7 64-bit
NVidia GTX 970 4Gb ACX 2.0
Track IR, CH Fighterstick, CH Pro Throttle, CH Pro Pedals

Offline pervert

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Re: Just can't turn need help
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2009, 07:00:08 PM »
Useless reply, and you must not have read most of the thread

He gave a basic question then said he was beyond that when he got a basic response people aren't mind readers. 

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Just can't turn need help
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2009, 09:54:33 PM »
Yeah I don't fly for pilot score.  My group flies for base take score, currently #1 in the game in that area  :aok  Unfortunately this objective calls for extremely dangerous mission types that aren't conducive to flying home all too often.

This could be the fundemental problem.  Too much time taking bases.  Get back to fighting other birds.
Dan/CorkyJr
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Offline slyguy

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Re: Just can't turn need help
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2009, 07:14:41 PM »
He gave a basic question then said he was beyond that when he got a basic response people aren't mind readers. 

C'mon dude!  This was the VERY FIRST SENTENCE!


Okay let me preface this by saying that I've been flying WWII birds online for a decade and understand the basics as far as E, speed, plane types, their attributes, etc. so I'm not exactly a noob.


There was nothing "vague" about it.  That is why I "prefaced" so that you would "read" the preface and not jump to the "conclusion" you inappropriately jumped to.

I stepped on no toes, I made no outrageous assertions, I did nothing other than try to find an solution to a problem while providing as much background on me and my problem so that it could get solved efficiently.  All your post goes to show is that A) some people really don't read anything and B) no matter how appropriately you try to communicate with the community someone will STILL have a problem with you.

Go find some other thread to skim your way through because you're offering nothing here except for grief.

I"ll let Agent360 get away with it because it's his instinct to help and HIS post will help more people than this entire thread combined.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 07:24:12 PM by slyguy »

Offline slyguy

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Re: Just can't turn need help
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2009, 07:36:59 PM »
ok, now I GOTA know...


What is your AH CPID in game? (slyguy)

My ID is qSLYp.  Go ask ZULU6 about me.  He'll tell you anything you need to know about my "experience" level if it's really that important to you.  Not trying to be defensive but now I feel like I'm on trial and I don't understand why.  All I did was propose a problem and try my best to remove certain items from the usual "check list" that I already have covered.  See, I knew it would happen so I didn't just crawl out from under a rock.

I was trying to help the community help me by providing it with the information to get the job done efficiently.  End of story.

Offline WMLute

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Re: Just can't turn need help
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2009, 12:00:03 AM »
My ID is qSLYp.  Go ask ZULU6 about me.  He'll tell you anything you need to know about my "experience" level if it's really that important to you.  Not trying to be defensive but now I feel like I'm on trial and I don't understand why.  All I did was propose a problem and try my best to remove certain items from the usual "check list" that I already have covered.  See, I knew it would happen so I didn't just crawl out from under a rock.

I was trying to help the community help me by providing it with the information to get the job done efficiently.  End of story.

I was just curious how long you had flown, and wanted a peek at your stats.

I also was wondering who the #1 base taking squad in AH was.  (i'm still wondering actually)  Not sure why you would toss out such and outlandish claim, but after re-reading the thead just now it sorta "fits" so there is that.

I would considering tossing the Logitec as they are notorious for being really, really terrible joysticks that tend to only last for 6 months ish.  If you need a j/s under $50 I would point you to Saitek.  Logitec I would avoid if at all possible.
"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."
— George Patton

Absurdum est ut alios regat, qui seipsum regere nescit

Offline Agent360

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Re: Just can't turn need help
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2009, 01:03:41 PM »
Slyguy,

I am a little confused. Have you solved your problem with the stick scaling? Do you feel you are turning properly now?

If not, regardless of your "experience" there is nothing wrong with a few min in the TA or just finding a friend and practicing turning. I get my squaddies to help me all the time. We all get into slumps and often all it takes is a little "work out". I often ask my friends to fly something impossible for me to out turn in a k4...like a spit 5 or even a zeek. We then work on the specific problem.

I am in the DA alot. If you see me in there I would be glad to do some jousting.


Offline Bubbajj

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Re: Just can't turn need help
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2009, 01:46:15 AM »
One HUGE problem is that logicrap joystick, I had one of those at first and kept hearing how they are junk. I finally moved up to CH and the difference is unbelieveable. I tried to plug the logitec into one of my other computers the other day and it was un-usable.

Offline bozon

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Re: Just can't turn need help
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2009, 02:47:05 AM »
I'm using the Logitech 3D Pro just for further detail.
Throw it away - preferably into the fire, otherwise some child may find it and try to use it. I had it and couldn't turn with it. The problem is that it had very narrow range of deflection and therefore is very sensitive to fluctuations. The small deflection range is good for "twitch" games, but terrible for flight sims where you need precision, not speed. Good scaling advances you from "unplayable" to "just plain bad".

When you buy a stick for flight sim, wiggle it a little and make sure it has a large deflection range. My ancient CH-flightstick was the best in this respect. Then I had the Logitech for a short time, threw it away in disgust and got an old Microsoft FF2. The difference was worlds apart.
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs