Author Topic: An Open Question to HTC-  (Read 4636 times)

Offline -sudz-

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Re: An Open Question to HTC-
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2009, 09:04:32 AM »
Hey HiTech,

I can think of an intern we can use - a fledgling actress.  She could visit my office, "accidentally" press herself up against my back, and tell me how awesome I code.  She could admire the way I cut and paste and the way I select auto-filled variables with unbridled confidence.  She could tut-tut over the way I abuse my eyes staring into my "huge" monitor.  She could giggle and clap her hands delightedly each time I announce a bug squashed.  Now that would increase productivity!  :)

PS  better make it a good actress.

Seriously, though, I've had interns in other jobs and I spent almost all my time training, helping, and reigning in.  Besides, it's not as if we have a shortage of people wanting to give us fresh ideas.

One last thing: on the initial post, why did you think we didn't have any interns?

- Sudz

Offline LLogann

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Re: An Open Question to HTC-
« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2009, 09:17:51 AM »
Hey HiTech,

I can think of an intern we can use - a fledgling actress.  She could visit my office, "accidentally" press herself up against my back, and tell me how awesome I code.  And that is the reason I will only accept male intern's....  Don't want to get into the dangerous area of SH & HR.......


Seriously, though, I've had interns in other jobs and I spent almost all my time training, helping, and reigning in.  Besides, it's not as if we have a shortage of people wanting to give us fresh ideas.    You are so correct on that one... I get an intern for the summer, and it's mid July before they can actually function.



- Sudz

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Offline SB

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Re: An Open Question to HTC-
« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2009, 11:44:33 AM »
One thing that hasn't been hashed out here about using interns, the cost. If you've been to HiTech's office you'll immediately notice there is not available room to put them up. (you could put them in with Roy but they may never be found again!). The first cost is office space to put them up, since there isn't any space where they are you now you have to move the whole operation to larger quarters and pay for the additional floor space, then the operating expenses in power, telephone and computers. How many interns? They year around help or just temp? Ya know, I just don't think we can afford that kind of low cost help in Grapevine  :cool:

If you really want to see how the operation is run, make the time to come to the convention in October and sit down and talk with the Hitech crew, they all show up during the weekend. You may even accidently have a good time and I can set up tours of the offices <eg>

SB

Offline LLogann

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Re: An Open Question to HTC-
« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2009, 11:59:31 AM »
Intern's work between 3 and 5 months usually, based on the length of a college semester............  The bigger problem is experience.  2 types of internships, paid and for credit.  The younger, less experienced people will get the credits, but the upperclass people will try for a paid internship.   The big issue, as ~sudz~ points out, is by the time they are up to speed, the professor is doing a final onsite visit. 

How many interns? They year around help or just temp?

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Offline SlapShot

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Re: An Open Question to HTC-
« Reply #49 on: May 19, 2009, 04:09:09 PM »
Oh, and I'd be very willing to bet there are many programming students that could match HTC's ability to code, program, etc.

That is laughable at best ... there are many talented kids coming out of college, but none could hold a candle to Sudz and more so HiTech.

I am a Senior Software Architect (business software) and have been involved in the hiring process for our group. We hired 5 real qualified (or what appeared to be qualified) students that had just graduated from some pretty reputable Colleges.

Long story short ... they no longer work for us except 2. We paid the price to try and bring them up to speed (over a 1 yr time period) and they failed miserably. All the time that I spent (and other senior developers) to try and make them productive in our group was nothing but a waste of time ... and we pretty much had to do their job and ours to make things work.

I was mentoring a young man from Rutgers ... BS in Compute Science ... look at one of my programs and ask a question about a line similar to this ...

int RC = isFlightFirstClass(expenseData);

if(RC!=0)
{
error();
}

The question was ... "What does RC mean ?" ... I knew I was in trouble at that point.
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Offline Sikboy

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Re: An Open Question to HTC-
« Reply #50 on: May 19, 2009, 04:36:47 PM »
I took a BASIC class in the 7th grade, I bet I could help out!

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Offline grizz441

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Re: An Open Question to HTC-
« Reply #51 on: May 19, 2009, 04:42:39 PM »
That is laughable at best ... there are many talented kids coming out of college, but none could hold a candle to Sudz and more so HiTech.

I am a Senior Software Architect (business software) and have been involved in the hiring process for our group. We hired 5 real qualified (or what appeared to be qualified) students that had just graduated from some pretty reputable Colleges.

Long story short ... they no longer work for us except 2. We paid the price to try and bring them up to speed (over a 1 yr time period) and they failed miserably. All the time that I spent (and other senior developers) to try and make them productive in our group was nothing but a waste of time ... and we pretty much had to do their job and ours to make things work.

I was mentoring a young man from Rutgers ... BS in Compute Science ... look at one of my programs and ask a question about a line similar to this ...

int RC = isFlightFirstClass(expenseData);

if(RC!=0)
{
error();
}

The question was ... "What does RC mean ?" ... I knew I was in trouble at that point.

I haven't programmed since middle school, RC is just a defined integer variable with a parameter right? It could be named anything.

Offline straffo

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Re: An Open Question to HTC-
« Reply #52 on: May 19, 2009, 05:01:29 PM »
RC an integer ?

nahhh Slapshot is just another soccer mum :)

http://www.rclens.fr/

Offline Motherland

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Re: An Open Question to HTC-
« Reply #53 on: May 19, 2009, 05:06:26 PM »
That is laughable at best ... there are many talented kids coming out of college, but none could hold a candle to Sudz and more so HiTech.

I am a Senior Software Architect (business software) and have been involved in the hiring process for our group. We hired 5 real qualified (or what appeared to be qualified) students that had just graduated from some pretty reputable Colleges.

Long story short ... they no longer work for us except 2. We paid the price to try and bring them up to speed (over a 1 yr time period) and they failed miserably. All the time that I spent (and other senior developers) to try and make them productive in our group was nothing but a waste of time ... and we pretty much had to do their job and ours to make things work.

I was mentoring a young man from Rutgers ... BS in Compute Science ... look at one of my programs and ask a question about a line similar to this ...

int RC = isFlightFirstClass(expenseData);

if(RC!=0)
{
error();
}

The question was ... "What does RC mean ?" ... I knew I was in trouble at that point.
I've never done computer code before.
But is RC equal to the expense Data for (a) First Class Flight?

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: An Open Question to HTC-
« Reply #54 on: May 19, 2009, 05:10:51 PM »
This has to be one of the most arrogant post I have ever seen.

Your first line.

Said it all, it is equivalent to you staying in a Holiday Inn express last night ,and then tell a brain surgery you know more than he about his craft. And then disagree how he does things.

No, not arrogance at all.  Just in search of answers and I'm not one to simply drink the cool-aid like many others (and I'm certainly not an brown noser, either).  Not in one sentence did I ever tell HTC how to do its job.

You did not even take the time to read and understand my post.

yes, I read and re-read it.  You didnt answer the questions.  Below is when you DID answer them and basically it boils down do the lack of experience in the field of programming.
This was not stated in the least, it was stated in regards you your asking about using and intern with flight modeling.

So... a programming intern, one that is knowledgable in coding with your software or other such black magic, would be of no help at all anywhere for AH2?

It is again blatantly obvious you have never worked in a creative or engineering environment.

I said that, no need to be "blatant" with your reply.

1st I have been programming for 35 years. I have worked in many coding environment from large to small. Your business is simply a process. Sell, fill form, perform claims ....
Your cost structure  ,I would assume, is mostly in the process. I.E. if you wish to grow, it will require more people to perform the process. This is 100% opposite from development where your cost structure occurs from creating and implementing Ideas, and the process cost is almost negligible.

So... it cost nothing to implement new idea in the form of funds... but what about time?

Development and engineering are not a simple process that can be broken into pieces. And as the classic fault listed in the mythical man month , 9 women can not make a baby in a month.

As an example in our current terrain rewrite, I have re written it many times. It is the nature of new development. You can not see all the out comes of such a complex problem until you start implementing it.

Right.  Point taken again.  Hence, all the "beta" releases we see in boxed games and the current test release of the new terrain(s).

With a piece of software on the scale of AH, just learning the lay of the land is huge. The types of software an intern could write, would take longer to document and explain , then simply to have Stewart or I write.

Understood.  Again, that is where the experience and efficiency part comes into play and that part I know and understand very well.  However, I'm still having a hard time digesting that there isnt something a new yet knowledgable coder could help with.

And entry level coder has a basic knowledge of the tools at hand to create programs. He has basic knowledge of some algorithms. He has almost zero knowledge of the pro's and cons of different approaches as they apply to any specific system he would be working on.

HiTech

You jumped the gun a bit when you refered to my post as "arrogant", I will always yield in areas I know nothing of, but when a question is asked an answes are given to a question that had not been asked... I'll ask my question again or find a way to re-phrase it so it is undersstood.  You post above is how you should have responded in your first post.   ;)
« Last Edit: May 19, 2009, 05:15:02 PM by SmokinLoon »
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Offline straffo

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Re: An Open Question to HTC-
« Reply #55 on: May 19, 2009, 05:11:30 PM »
RC mean Return Code
if not equal to zero there was a "ooops" in the isFlightFirstClass function
« Last Edit: May 19, 2009, 05:13:42 PM by straffo »

Offline Brooke

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Re: An Open Question to HTC-
« Reply #56 on: May 19, 2009, 05:51:24 PM »
Whether or not interns are useful depends on your business and the task.

If there is a lot of knowledge needed that they don't have, they are a drain.  They will use up more resources getting trained and getting up to speed than they will be able to contribute.  This has been my experience where I work, in our departments of software development, engineering, biology and chemistry, and production.  The tasks have too much project-specific knowledge required.

If they already have the knowledge and can complete the task, then it can be useful.  This has worked out in our legal department once, for example, but only because we had a well-defined task that a law student could do and had one available (so that we didn't have to screen a bunch of them, which takes time).  It might be useful in a marketing or sales department where you want someone to do a fairly simple task that doesn't take a lot of explaining (like a web search for competing products or looking up contact info on all companies that meet a specific set of criteria) or general office work if the task doesn't need much training.  Still, you have to figure in the time to locate and screen applicants.

So, it depends, but usually software development is not a place where an intern will save you money -- at least not in my experience.  Even things that volunteers do in AH (CM'ing, making terrains, making skins, for example) are things that an intern would not be able to do.

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: An Open Question to HTC-
« Reply #57 on: May 19, 2009, 06:12:49 PM »
So... a programming intern, one that is knowledgable in coding with your software or other such black magic, would be of no help at all anywhere for AH2?


The only good use for an intern that I've found was to get coffee for me and the project team(s) I manage.  Our dev team also had a couple of interns but they were let go after 3 weeks when it dawned on one of the producers that they were spending more time in teaching the interns on how to use the 3D modeling software that we use for our games.  The only interns we hire now at my company are for the sales/marketing and accounting departments, you won't see an intern in our customer service, operations or development departments.  I know that I will not hire an intern after my last experience.


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Offline NoBaddy

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Re: An Open Question to HTC-
« Reply #58 on: May 19, 2009, 06:19:35 PM »

PS  better make it a good actress.



Sudz...

She would HAVE to be a good actress!!!! :devil

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Offline hitech

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Re: An Open Question to HTC-
« Reply #59 on: May 19, 2009, 07:14:29 PM »
Quote
How right you are, I know nothing of software development.  I speak not from coding experience, but from a small and well honed experience in owning a business.  In your situation, adding 2-3 more people, ones that know coding, will not hurt in the production of new and the fixing of the old. 

Quote
No, not arrogance at all.  Just in search of answers and I'm not one to simply drink the cool-aid like many others (and I'm certainly not an brown noser, either).  Not in one sentence did I ever tell HTC how to do its job.

I do not know what language you use, but the above is not a question, it is not a search for answers, it is a direct statement telling men how to run my production, even drawing conclusions of what will and will not hurt production.

Quote
You post above is how you should have responded in your first post.

And once again you tell me how to do my job.


HiTech