Looks like the f22 production really is stopping

[MachFly]

They were on the right track with the F-15 ACTIVE. Canards, thrust vectoring, and STOL capabilities.

That was NASA testing there stuff

[redman555]

I love Fa-22 raptor, my favorite plane 



-BigBOBCH

[MachFly]

post deleted

[SEraider]

The F35 is in production for a fraction of the cost and very similar in performance to the F22.

[Golfer]

The F35 is in production for a fraction of the cost and very similar in performance to the F22.

Did you read that in Highlights magazine waiting at the denist office?

[Sabre]

(Image removed from quote.)

That should have won 

The YF-23 was definitely more stealthy (yes, I'm an expert), but as I recall F-22 was more maneuverable.  Decision was made by Fighter Mafia, so...

In any event, I think it's a huge mistake to cancel this program.  The F-35 is NOT an air superiority fighter, and does not IIRC have super-cruise.  This alone is a force multiplier that is hard to overstate.  The Low-Probability of Intercept radar systems, combined with its low radar cross section, give it a first-shot/first-kill ability that no other plane can currently match.  The primary reason the USAF F-15 has maintained air dominance is due to training, tactics, and information dominance over the battle space, not the aircraft's capability.  I don't say this to run down the F-15; it was and still is a marvelous machine.  However, in the last two decades it has only been employed in a combat environment where the chips were stacked heavily in its favor.  The combined arms, strike package concept employed by the US, used against adversaries with poorly trained and equiped nations, has done much to uphold the F-15's aura of superiority.

[Anaxogoras]

You know, not to go in a different direction, but I wonder how some older prop jobs and early jets in straight turn-fight with guns only..
I talking taking any radar or advanced avionics out the equation..  Airplane to Airplane..  I know it's weird...But I've always wondered...
Can F-18's or F-16's turn with the likes of a Spitfire or a Mustang?  How would a Jug to against an A-10?  Obviously the Jug would fall apart if hit
by the A-10 if it got hit at all..  Stupid questions...  Please forgive.....

The best sustained turn speed for an F-16 is faster than a Spitfire or P-51's best ias, so its turn radius would be gigantic compared to theirs, and trying to win the fight that way wouldn't work.  This is a good demonstration of why turn-fighting is dumb.

-----------------------

I have some questions for the F-22 supporters.  What are we going to do with it that we couldn't do with something more cost effective, i.e. the F-35?  Unless you think war with China or Russia is a distinct possibility, the answer is going to be "nothing."  Let's look at who our real enemies are, what their capabilities are, and with that information decide on the best way to fight them.

On the other hand, outfitting every Air Force fighter squadron with F-22s would be cheap compared to the cost of the strategic blunder we made in 2003.

[68Wooley]

...What are we going to do with it that we couldn't do with something more cost effective, i.e. the F-35?...

I'm with you on this. I'm struggling to imagine the situation where a eighty or so Raptors and - say - 200 or so Lightnings, with the possibility of being backed up by 30 or 40 British / Italian / German / Australian / Canadian / other Usual Suspect allied Typhoons and Lightnings, would utterly dominate any given airspace.

Unless, of course, we're planning to invade China.

[TOMCAT21]

im still here Banshee///

[Jebus]

then we might as well make B-52 the main air superiority fighter

Weren't they going to try that with the EB-52 Megafortress back around 2000?

I found pictures of the EB-52 Megafortress but forgot how to paste pictures on here.

[Treize69]

Weren't they going to try that with the EB-52 Megafortress back around 2000?

I found pictures of the EB-52 Megafortress but forgot how to paste pictures on here.

You do realize that was a photoshopped joke based on a fiction novel machine, right?

[Jebus]

You do realize that was a photoshopped joke based on a fiction novel machine, right?

That is why i asked it more of a question then anything.  I know there are some photo shops out there, but I thought i read it was an idea for the military in the past. 

I never said it was a real, sorry for the confusion.

New I read about the EB-52 somewhere.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/03/03/323298/us-air-force-cancels-sam-jamming-eb-52-for-second-time.html

[DREDIOCK]

Good move IMO.

With the lack of any significant enemy at the moment we dont need any more then we already have.  And by the time we do have one. An even better plane will be developed.

I understand the desire to have more of these really cool weapon systems. I think they are cool too
But the reality is, Given our current enemies. We have other more pressing needs at the moment

[Sabre]

Good move IMO.

With the lack of any significant enemy at the moment we dont need any more then we already have.  And by the time we do have one. An even better plane will be developed.

I understand the desire to have more of these really cool weapon systems. I think they are cool too
But the reality is, Given our current enemies. We have other more pressing needs at the moment

With China moving to gain military and economic dominance in the Pacific Rim, the F-22 becomes even more important.  It's range and super-cruise ability are ideal for an area where airspace is vast but airstrips sparse.

[Anaxogoras]

With China moving to gain military and economic dominance in the Pacific Rim, the F-22 becomes even more important.  It's range and super-cruise ability are ideal for an area where airspace is vast but airstrips sparse.

So then you agree that the best reason for an F-22 instead of an F-35 is fighting China?  That is your opponents' argument in a nut shell.