Looks like the f22 production really is stopping

[bj229r]

Dont know that anyone's mentioned it--obviously the F15/F16 can wax most of whatever is out there, but the F22 does that 5X better while being nearly invisible on radar? I'd submit our pilot not being hit by a SAM is a noteworthy feature....and if our allies have all the manufacturing info on F35, then so do the Chinese and Russians

[CAP1]

and right now we have only 122.

F-15E is not made for air superiority, and F-15Cs are old are literally falling apart.

TRUE.......but we can build 2 or 3 f-15's or f-18's for the cost of each f-22

[TOMCAT21]

The Phoenix missile and the AWG-9 weapon system came from the failed F111B(the navalized version of the AirForce F111A)...it was too heavy for carrier operations..in most cases the 14 had radar lock before a contact knew what it was. in 1974-1975 there was a fly off between the 14 and the 15 which the 14 prevailed in. all my years working on 14's never heard a complaint about working too much on them..IT was our job and we liked our job....the bottom line like everything else is : you get what you pay for.

[bj229r]

TRUE.......but we can build 2 or 3 f-15's or f-18's for the cost of each f-22

But 15 isn't as surviveable as the 22....do very-expensive-to-train pilots lost to SAMs figure into that scenario?

[CAP1]

But 15 isn't as surviveable as the 22....do very-expensive-to-train pilots lost to SAMs figure into that scenario?

i would suspect that modern electronics, and countermeasures can be built into it, allowing the survivability to improve, and still be vastly cheaper.

 i could be wrong though.......

[bj229r]

Nary a clue there, but Iran is getting latest Russian AA stuff (I know the F117 was used for the intense stuff in '92, was it used same in '03 as well?)

[TOMCAT21]

to upgrade the 15  alone would require major refurbishment and considering the age of the airframe would not be cost effective. IN the 14's case the airframes were intended for around 7000-7500 flight hours and we had 14A's that had over 10000 flight hours before they were retired. In the end it would be cheaper to procure the F22.

[CAP1]

to upgrade the 15  alone would require major refurbishment and considering the age of the airframe would not be cost effective. IN the 14's case the airframes were intended for around 7000-7500 flight hours and we had 14A's that had over 10000 flight hours before they were retired. In the end it would be cheaper to procure the F22.

the point i was trying to make wasn't to upgrade the existing eagles anf tomcats.......it was that since there's already tooling to produce these aircraft, and with the exception of the raptor, they're still the best in the world......build new ones. incorporate the newer electronics as they're built. brand new eagles, tomcats, and hornets..........would be a force to be reckoned with.

[Furball]

the point i was trying to make wasn't to upgrade the existing eagles anf tomcats.......it was that since there's already tooling to produce these aircraft, and with the exception of the raptor, they're still the best in the world......build new ones. incorporate the newer electronics as they're built. brand new eagles, tomcats, and hornets..........would be a force to be reckoned with.

But they are not the best in the world anymore...

[CAP1]

But they are not the best in the world anymore...

excluding the raptor?

[TOMCAT21]

correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Furball was saying the Raptor is the best.

[bj229r]

F14-15-16 will never be stealthy....F35/JSF is supposed to be, but I'm dubious of any plane which has its info known to most of the free world

[Furball]

excluding the raptor?

Raptor is in its own league.  

Do you think that the F-15, 16 and 18 are better than the new stuff coming out of Europe and Russia?

[jdbecks]

as longs as this bad boy never geos out of production Ill be happy! they look fantastic...sound fantastic and blows the crap out of everything on the ground 

[CAP1]

Raptor is in its own league.  

Do you think that the F-15, 16 and 18 are better than the new stuff coming out of Europe and Russia?

i think so, yes.....i coul dbe wrong though.