Author Topic: Another possible/urgent matchup (Read 1162 times)

Hristo · « **on:** January 27, 2000, 12:59:00 AM »

This has been mentioned in General Discussion, as well as few times before.

The Pfeil

Lately we got the cannon Hog. More or less surprisingly it outmatched any other plane in AH judging by K/D ratio. Even the Niki, also armed with 4 big guns, being better turner, climber and accelerator, has pathetic score compared to the Hog.

Now, as far as I know, the cannon Hog was:

quite rare plane
lethal guns
big
good for ground attack (read vulch)
fairly fast
mediocre turner
poor climber
poor accelerator
good diver
poor six view
tough
ugly/cool design

Strangely enough, almost all these characteristics pretty well aply to the Do 335:

even more rare than cannon Hog
even more lethal guns
even bigger
good for ground attack (read vulch)
fairly faster
even more mediocre turner
probably better climber
far better accelerator
good diver
poor six view
tough
even uglier/cooler than the Hog

Interestingly, both are related to year 1943, while Do 335 never officially entered the Luftwaffe (or am I wrong).

Also, seems that Hog has 15% lower wingloading, while Pfeil has 15% better power loading

So, how about the matchup ? Pros and cons, please, but have in mind that Hog needs an anti-Hog quick

Why cannon Hog in AH ? Why not the Pfeil as well ?

P.S.
I know about the Tempest, but it is no Luftwaffe.

[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 01-27-2000).]

gatt · « **Reply #1 on:** January 27, 2000, 01:09:00 AM »

I think that a well modeled FW190D-9 should be enuff.

Hristo · « **Reply #2 on:** January 27, 2000, 01:30:00 AM »

Sorry, Gatt, but I disagree about cannons.

My experience is that Hog cannons have twice the effective/damage range of the Mg 151/20 in AH.

While it is usually waste of ammo to fire at d4 with MG 151/20, I have lost parts at ranges of d8-10 to the Hog (yes, I am aware of the lag).

gatt · « **Reply #3 on:** January 27, 2000, 04:27:00 AM »

As far as cannons are concerned your right. What I mean is that a well modeled Dora should be enuff to win a dogfight (avoiding HO, that is

)

BTW, I'm aware that the Hispano is a better cannon than the Mauser. Do you mean that our 151-20 is porked like the WB's one? (If I'm not wrong no HE shell there, only AP).

Hristo · « **Reply #4 on:** January 27, 2000, 06:24:00 AM »

Well, porked is a word a bit too strong.

I don't know what rounds are modeled for MG 151/20, but they are pretty effective, at least at ranges below 200 yards. Outside of that range you should not expect miracles

What I experience is the trajectory of the Mauser, which is inferior to the one of Hispano. Also, dispersion seems greater.
In HO, .50 cal and Hispano armed planes often start firing from d10-12 on my FE, and I get damage even before I enter 109 effective gun range. Same thing with Niki.

Spit, Hog or Niki d8 behind you is a problem. 109, 190 or Macchi d8 behind is almost safe.

I never fire outside 350 yards, even in a straight tail chase. The ammo waste is simply to big, compared to the result. The exception is only when I try to make opponent turn.

However, I have been pinged (and damaged) at ranges far greater than that. Once I lost wingtip in 190 to spit who was 1200 yards behind on my FE, and 800 yards on his FE.

Also, I consider Spit more dangerous in HO than 190, because it can deliver damage at considerably greater ranges. Up close the 4 20mm 190 wins though.

Hog is probably even more dangerous than Spit, I naver dared to even think of HOing one.

But let's limit this thread to Pfeil-Hog duel of Uglies

Besides other aspects, Pfeil might be the only plane which will be feared in HO by Hog drivers.

juzz · « **Reply #5 on:** January 27, 2000, 06:53:00 AM »

You just want those MK 103 don't you?

Hristo · « **Reply #6 on:** January 27, 2000, 08:31:00 AM »

You bet

Westy · « **Reply #7 on:** January 27, 2000, 08:36:00 AM »

I would love to fly that plane. The DO-335.
Not sure I'd relish a dog fight flying in it but I've always thought that aircraft was beautiful.

-Westy

leonid · « **Reply #8 on:** January 27, 2000, 08:46:00 AM »

A Hispano 20mm round fires at a higher muzzle velocity than any of the other major 20mm cannons in WWII. Also, at 130g per round, the Hispano shell is on average about 30% larger than any of the 20mm shells that fire at similar velocities. Thus, the four Hispanos on the F4U-1C are extremely formidible. The last place you want to be is in front of a F4U-1C - I don't care at what speed or energy state. Finally, since the Corsair is the next fastest thing (or next to the next fastest thing), you never want to be coalt, or below it for any length of time.

Thus, when engaging a F4U-1C:
[list=1]

Stay higher, or lacking height, retain higher energy.
Never HO.
Refrain from scissoring, in case you end up H2H.
Straddle a Corsair only if its energy state is quite low, relative to yours.

leave quickly. There is no choice, if one wishes to return to base in other than a body bag.

OTOH, if you want an awesome score, fly a F4U-1C as a pure energy fighter. You will see kills you never would have dreamed possible. While I don't quite advocate spray-n-pray, I do insist that you shoot at any shot opportunity - anything! Those four Hispanos will make the slimmest snapshots almost assured kills.

------------------
leonid
129 IAP VVS RKKA

[This message has been edited by leonid (edited 01-27-2000).]

gatt · « **Reply #9 on:** January 27, 2000, 09:25:00 AM »

Ok, you have scared me enuff

The only way to get out seems to be climbing away. Seriously, I do believe we dont need a "1946?" or a "Secret weapon of the LW" kite to bring down a Corsair ....

Anyway, I'm an early war plane set fan ....

P.S.: What about a TigerII to HO a F4U-1C?

[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 01-27-2000).]

Pongo · « **Reply #10 on:** January 27, 2000, 09:47:00 AM »

Leonid.
Yup.
Thats the real thing. Your shot envelope goes out to 800. And you will kill at that range. I went deep into knight land last night. I was chasing a B17 but he was dead before I got there. So I kept going found a lone b26 co alt...He was dead not a ping. Found 2 more both dead small ping no damage.
I still had over 220 rounds reading in each ammo counter...As I was touring back towards the mountains, A 109(g10) was climbing up to say hi....I dove about 2 k He did a fairly good job of cutting the angle towards me so I only had a snap shot...by by wing. A .50 armed plane might have hit at such a crazy angle.. but it wouldnt have hurt him seriosly i think.
I had enough ammo left to do it all again...
But no cons...So I went home.
All of the b26s where taken down from their 8 or 4 oclock, coalt... not a hit on me really. They were dead at d700-800
I would love to see one of those big formations of buffs without escort....

------------------
Pongo

Minotaur · « **Reply #11 on:** January 28, 2000, 02:12:00 AM »

Quote

even uglier/cooler than the Hog

WoW! "Sky Dragon"

As I recalled, this "Beast" had the rear engine postitioned tranverse to the front engine.

Mino

Hristo · « **Reply #12 on:** January 28, 2000, 03:03:00 AM »

Pongo nailed it. The guns envelope of the Hog makes it such an awesome killer.

I learned it the hard way: d8 distance (on both my and opponent's end, confirmed on open channel) is no safe place to be when Hog is behind. His gun recoil slows him down, yes, but usually it kills before this happens.

Even 4 MG 151/20 190 is nowhere near that guns envelope.

funked · « **Reply #13 on:** January 28, 2000, 12:29:00 PM »

Cannon Hogs were in serial production, in service with combat units. They fought well. Ditto for cannon-armed Hellcats. Ditto for cannon-armed Mustangs for that matter!

Do 335 was never mass produced nor was it delivered to combat units. There is no evidence that it fired a shot in anger.

Hristo · « **Reply #14 on:** January 28, 2000, 12:41:00 PM »

Yep, very true, funked. However, can you think of any other LW planes more similar to the cannon Hog ?